You seem to have no problems believing that there was always a "core" of patriarchs and prophets who "knew" Jesus before Incarnation. IOW, there was always the orthodox faith. Just because the rest of Israel didn't follow it, doesn't mean it didn't exist. It's not about numbers.
If it is actually true that in Heaven there are Orthodox and Baptists and Latins and Presbyterians, etc., etc., then I can conceive of how God could have wanted things to be exactly the way they are right now.
God wanted man to be virtuous. He doe snot distinguish between denominations. There are virtuous people in spite of their errors of judgment.
John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also....This is a clear reference to non-Jews (Gentiles). Paul supports Jesus by explaining to us how non-Jews can nevertheless be considered sheep. Paul AND Jesus are both right
FK, you are ignoring the earlier Gospels that quote Jesus with utmost clarity that He was sent for the "lost sheep of Israel only," [Mat 15:240 and that He sends his disciples only to the "lost sheep of Israel" and specifically forbids them to go to Gentiles and Samaritans [Mat 10:6].
Likewise, He never even hints for any one of His disciples to go to the Gentile, ever. The Great Commission, if it hadn't been added at some latter date, can just as well be taken to apply only to the Jews. The word "nations" is tribes, as in tribes of Israel; why would He have chosen 12 Apostles if not one for each tribe of Israel?
Of course, considering when John's Gospel was written, it was imperative for the Good News to be interpreted as including the Gentiles—but even then only by implication.
Obviously there were those Jews who knew His voice, but there were also those "lost sheep of Israel" who didn't. And He was sent to gather those "lost sheep of Israel."
If she was converted upon seeing Jesus, a perfectly good possibility with me, then that would be further evidence that Jesus came to save Gentiles. Since Jesus knew ahead of time, and if He did not come to save Gentiles, then He would have avoided the situation
What are you talking about? He was going to have none of that! God can save whomever He wants to save. But His mission was specifically stated as being for the "lost sheep of Israel."
And the way the story goes, it doesn't look like He "knew" that she believed when she approached Him.
That's a fair point to raise, but it looks like it gets pretty sticky on defining what "essence" is
Not tricky at all, FK. Essence or nature in this case is immortal and mortal.
Of course they instituted the "Fallen nature", but for believers that is only a temporary state. In any event, at best I would think that to be a one-time exception
Grace does not restore us to immortality in body as well. Our physical nature has changed. It's like going from a man to a monkey. We still have to die physically in order to be created anew. In other words the same soul, except "cleansed," in a new body. Our souls have to be raised to the human level again, in likeness of God, and our bodies have to be rebuilt pristine. It's an altogether new man as far as I am concerned. Perhaps the same "person" but a whole new refurbished being. That's not going to happen on earth. Banish that fantasy.
We cannot exist, as some posit, as souls only. God created us body and soul. That is our "Natural" state. Until we are completely purified, soul-wise, between particular and final judgment, we cannot be restored to immortality. The only question I have is what will stop us from doing, again, what Adam and Eve did!?
It seems like the amount of scripture you will even consider as being POSSIBLY true is getting smaller and smaller.
The extent of what I find truthful in the Bible is limited comapred to those who soak every word in it as God's word.
Where the Scripture speaks of those things not found in the natural world, love, mercy, compassion, justice, virtue,etc. the message of the scriptures, NT or OT, is true.
The "truth" of it is that there is no naturally occurring merciful animal, no naturally occurring sense of compassion in man. Left to their own devices, humans will invariably act animal-like. So, even the notion of, let alone desire for mercy, compassion and unconditional love, can safely be said to be "not of this world." We believe they are of God.
The other message that's found throughout the Bible is that God will forgive if we repent, and if God is the "out of this world" source of our notions of love and mercy, then He is a forgiving and loving God and repentance is our key to His grace.
You seem to have no problems believing that there was always a "core" of patriarchs and prophets who "knew" Jesus before Incarnation. IOW, there was always the orthodox faith. Just because the rest of Israel didn't follow it, doesn't mean it didn't exist. It's not about numbers.
That's right. I don't think that the Apostolic Church "stamped out" the right faith until the Reformers came along. I'm sure there were some all along who had it right. They just didn't get the ink that the OT righteous did. :) My "always and everywhere" comment was directed toward the documented evidence of disagreement within the Apostolic Church over time, and/or to changes being made in dogma throughout time. (I know the Orthodox deserve more of a pass on the latter.)
God wanted man to be virtuous. He doe snot distinguish between denominations. There are virtuous people in spite of their errors of judgment.
That is good to hear, but I don't know that it is the position of the Apostolic Church that one can normally be saved outside of it.
[On John 10:16:] FK, you are ignoring the earlier Gospels that quote Jesus with utmost clarity that He was sent for the "lost sheep of Israel only," [Mat 15:240 and that He sends his disciples only to the "lost sheep of Israel" and specifically forbids them to go to Gentiles and Samaritans [Mat 10:6].
I am inferring that you are saying that the earlier Gospels are in conflict with John and that we should follow the earlier ones. Is that right? I see no conflict at all. The lost sheep of Israel are the elect, Gentile or Jew, just as Paul explained. Matt. 10:6 was the practice run. It was not a final sending, obviously (Great Commission). See, in two sentences John and Matthew agree, if one wants to see it. Your core of scripture now appears to be whittled down to three books. :)
The Great Commission, if it hadn't been added at some latter date, can just as well be taken to apply only to the Jews. The word "nations" is tribes, as in tribes of Israel; why would He have chosen 12 Apostles if not one for each tribe of Israel?
The 12 Apostles CORRELATE to the 12 tribes, but you can't build into that the conclusion that Jesus only meant for Christianity to be preached only to the Jews. That's like saying that 40% of all people who eat peanut butter get cancer, therefore..... There's no link.
Plus, if your interpretation is right, then the Bible is wrong, since they obviously did wind up preaching to the Gentiles. That would have Jesus making a mistake, or having the Apostles sinning by disobeying Christ's orders. I don't think the Bible actually says that happened.
[Re: Matt. 15:] And the way the story goes, it doesn't look like He "knew" that she believed when she approached Him.
Is that what you believe, that Jesus was surprised by this woman's faith? He knows all about the Passion that is before Him, but this woman was a complete shock? Come on.
Until we are completely purified, soul-wise, between particular and final judgment, we cannot be restored to immortality. The only question I have is what will stop us from doing, again, what Adam and Eve did!?
Once we are given glory in Heaven there will be no more sin. From the website "Got Questions":
Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in Heaven?"
Answer: The Bible describes Heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in Heaven, but the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of Heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in Heaven.