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To: MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; wmfights
FK ***That sounds like a very “pass-the-buck” position to me. :) As I understand it, GREAT discretion is used in the decision to excommunicate.***

It is not up to the Church to save or damn - that is God’s prerogative. The Church is the teaching authority, not the Judge.

That dismisses what is going through the minds of the laymen your hierarchy is "effectively" damning to hell. Plus, it doesn't match the Catechism:

1495 Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.

1496 The spiritual effects of the sacrament of Penance are:

- reconciliation with God by which the penitent recovers grace;

- reconciliation with the Church;

- remission of the eternal punishment incurred by mortal sins;

- remission, at least in part, of temporal punishments resulting from sin;

- peace and serenity of conscience, and spiritual consolation;

- an increase of spiritual strength for the Christian battle.

1497 Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church. (all emphasis added)

The words are the words, they speak for themselves. And, BTW, the words of the Catechism here actually match what I have interpreted from Catholics. Most will not admit it, but it really is the men of the Church who decide salvation or damnation in a very real sense to the average layman. What else could one think after reading the above (and there are more examples)?

3,585 posted on 03/07/2008 4:16:45 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper

The Catechism means what it says:

***1495 Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.***

In other words, it is a passed office that is given under the authority of the Church which was given that office and the means of passing it on by Jesus.

***1497 Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church. ***

Ordinary means. That phrase means that this is the usual methodology that the Church is authorized to do. This does not mean that it is the only means. Normal and usual is what is authorized to us by God. He limits us to what He has instructed us. We do not limit Him.


3,613 posted on 03/07/2008 7:58:45 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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