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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; Alamo-Girl
Kosta: "So, it seems like works are an integral part of God’s plan as you’d call it, and not just “important,” but rather essential!."

FK: "Yes, they just aren’t used/performed to earn salvation."

Mark: "Then what are they essential for?"

Works are essential for fulfilling God's plan for His children:

Eph 2:10 : For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Barring the usual exceptions, this includes salvation. A true believer WILL bear fruit. A false believer will not. True believers will do good works naturally. The latter proceeds from the former every single time. In a sense, it's really one thing. I get the impression that the Latin view is that works and faith are two completely separate things, which must be independently chosen by any prospective or actual believer.

Ironically, this system, which I deny totally, is exactly the type of system that would be conducive to the "pecca fortier mentality" that my side is accused of on a daily basis! :) That is, I could ask why shouldn't Catholics feel they can sin all they want to during the week, and then simply clean it up with a confession and a couple of "Hail Mary's".

What happens if the Reformed do no works at all?

Normally, that would describe a person who claimed to be Reformed, but was actually of the "Lord, Lord" ilk. A true Reformed is a true believer, changed by God. That person will WANT to do works of his own "free will".

3,584 posted on 03/07/2008 3:12:37 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper

***Works are essential for fulfilling God’s plan for His children:

Eph 2:10 : For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.***

So what happens if you don’t? What are the works essential for? How are they essential?

***I get the impression that the Latin view is that works and faith are two completely separate things, which must be independently chosen by any prospective or actual believer.***

We believe that if one believes then one must follow the edicts of the Sermon on the Mount et al. Non performance is indicative of flagging or little faith.

*** That is, I could ask why shouldn’t Catholics feel they can sin all they want to during the week, and then simply clean it up with a confession and a couple of “Hail Mary’s”.
***

Because that is not true repentence; if you intend upon committing the same sins over and over again, then one remains in that state of sin.

***A true Reformed is a true believer, changed by God. That person will WANT to do works of his own “free will”.***

But if the Reformed have every action in their lives dictated and controlled, there is no free will and the works are mechanical only.


3,612 posted on 03/07/2008 7:53:28 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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