[Forest Keeper]

FK: "Yes. You know that I am a Reformer, yet there is a way that I can agree with much of this. I agree that God is not impressed and won't respond when the non-elect stamp their feet, etc."

And how would you know who is elect or non-elect? If St. Thomas was a doubting Apostles (as all of them were), does that mean they wee not "elect?" How presumptuous!

Aside from myself, I can't know who is the elect and who is not. I am not speaking about specific individuals, but generally. I don't have any problem with thinking that St. Thomas was of the elect, but when he doubted he couldn't have known any better. God had not revealed the truth to him yet. I was talking about people who SHOULD know better, i.e., those to whom God HAS already revealed the truth.

[hosepipe]

[ I don't have any problem with thinking that St. Thomas was of the elect, but when he doubted he couldn't have known any better. ]

Judas was also of the elect.. many christians and roman catholics have Judas picture hanging that they call Jesus.. Scripture says Jesus was homely.. The guy in the pcture is good looking.. probably Judas.. the Apostles accountant.