It has everything to do with the mindset of the authors of the NT. They were seeing the world through the eyes of Judaism, not Christianity or, for that matter 21st century Protestant Christians.
Well, if the authors were just random people who were writing their own stuff, then the Bible is just another book, and all of this is moot. I'm not sure how you can know what their mindsets were if you deny they were being directly led by the Spirit in their writings.
FK: "The Jews were wrong about many things at that time."
So were the Christians who expected the second coming within one generation. So were the Apostles who expected Christ to restore the kingdom of Israel after the Resurrection.
Ah, so if this is true, then I'm sure you would agree with me that it is fully possible that the early Church Fathers were wrong about a great many things. :)
There is nowhere in the NT that says that Christ came to save the Gentiles. It was a reaction to the Jewish refusal of His ministry.
If God is only a reactor, rather than a leader, then God follows man. This is not the God I know.
He is quoted as saying that the only reason he was sent was for the lost sheep of Israel, And he specifically forbade the Apostles to minister to the Gentiles. He calls Gentiles "dogs."
But in that same story He says to the Gentile: "Woman, you have great faith, your request is granted". Now, do you really think that if she had asked Him to forgive her sins right there Jesus would have said "Sorry, no can do you DOG!"? Of course not. This story is a great clue as to what Jesus knew was coming.
FK: [Re Gal 2:15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles"] He means by birth. He doesn't mean that Gentiles have a sinful nature and Jews do not.
He is stating that the Jews are somehow different form the Gentiles, by nature/essence, when it comes to being sinful. But, since not all Jews are born Jewish, your suggestion that he meant by "birth" is simply wrong as a matter of fact. He is saying that Jewishness somehow separates people by nature (essence), that the Gentiles can never be like the Jews. He makes that very clear.
You are making my point for me. Since you admit that some Jews were converts (true), THEN no one can say that Jews have a different essence. Can anyone change his own essence? No. I thought you used to be one who argued strongly that God plays no favorites. What made you change to this opposite view? All men stand equally before God in their sins. While it is true that the message was designed to be carried to the Jews first, there was never any question but that it would also be taken to the Gentiles. God actually knew what He was doing. :)
That is entirely in harmony with the Jewish attitude towards the Noahaides (the "righteous Gentiles") who, although saved because they followed the law, could never be the same as the Jews.
No one ever has or ever will be saved by following the law. That is a works based salvation and no one can do it.
Rom 3:20 : Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Rom 3:28-31 : 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Gal 2:15-16 : 15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
I am starting with the premise that they were human, and you are claimng that they were led by the Holy Spirit. I don't have to prove anything. You do.
Ah, so if this is true, then I'm sure you would agree with me that it is fully possible that the early Church Fathers were wrong about a great many things. :)
Many of them, FK. They are all on the list of trinitarian and christological heretics. Many a Church leader did not fully grasp the orthodox faith. That's why there were so many councils regarding their differences.
It took the Church 300-plus years to weed out most chrisotlogical and trinitarian heresies, and just as long to agree on the canon.
That's what +Ignatius, and Irenaeus, to mention the ealriest ones, wrote about. That's what +Paul's Epistles are all about—aberrant church communities.
Christianity was divided from the getgo, just as it is today. We are no different than Israel was under the Old Covenant. It's really hard to imagine God planned it that way!
Kosta: There is nowhere in the NT that says that Christ came to save the Gentiles. It was a reaction to the Jewish refusal of His ministry
FK; If God is only a reactor, rather than a leader, then God follows man. This is not the God I know
I am not asking about "your" God; I am stating what's written (or better yet what's not written). So, to put it another way, the God you claim to know is not quoted as having said He came to save the Gentiles; only the lost sheep of Israel.
But in that same story He says to the Gentile: "Woman, you have great faith, your request is granted". Now, do you really think that if she had asked Him to forgive her sins right there Jesus would have said "Sorry, no can do you DOG!"? Of course not. This story is a great clue as to what Jesus knew was coming
Mercy is extended to dogs as well. They are God's creatures too. On the other hand,you could say that she converted when she saw Christ and was therefore no longer a "dog." But, then, Jesus would have known that and would not have to wait to "discover" her great faith.
You are making my point for me
No, I am not. :)
Can anyone change his own essence?
Of course. What do you think happened to Adam and Eve? Were they created mortal?
I thought you used to be one who argued strongly that God plays no favorites
I still do. It's not God; it's +Paul. We are talking about +Paul, remember?
While it is true that the message was designed to be carried to the Jews first, there was never any question but that it would also be taken to the Gentiles. God actually knew what He was doing.
This is still +Paul talking. Christ is never quoted as having said anything like that.
No one ever has or ever will be saved by following the law. That is a works based salvation and no one can do it.
The Jews believed that, and so did many Christian Jews. They considered Gentile converts the same way as the Jews considered Noahides: saved but not equal to the Jews. Not everyone subscribed to +Paul's formula. The early Fathers clearly remind us of "Judaizers" and, as Didache calls them, "hypocrites."
Beware of worshiping +Paul.