[Kolokotronis]

” * Baptism is an efficacious grafting into the Body of Christ.
* The Church is visible, sho’ ‘nuff.
* However there a members of the Church in REALLY crappy standing (term of art, no?) and their connection to the Church is virtually imperceptible (like my typing skills).
* The distinction between ‘Christian’ and “member of the Church” is not a real distinction.
* Heretics (those who embrace error with a sufficient degree of knowledge that the CHurch teaches otherwise, a sufficient degree of knowledge of the Church’s grounds to claim authority, and a ditto of intent) are members of the Church in really awful standing.Heretics and those who cling to error with varying degrees of intent and culpability, harm themselves and other members of the body of Christ, and, especially, their misbelief hinders to the point of prevention theosis.
* To the extent that actions, internal or external, are directly attributable to demonic control, and to the extent that that control is the partially or wholly the result of some sin of the person being controlled, they are not culpable.
* But in the immediately preceding point and in those dealing with awareness and willfulness of misblelief cases are difficult to determine.
* In any event, Truth, and the desire and ability to embrace Him are the gift of God.”

1. sometimes

2 yes

3. yes

4. yes there is, at least historically

5. Depends on the heresy

6. no

7. The heretic’s problem, not that of The Church

8. Absolutely

So...?

[Mad Dawg]

Darn, I'm spoze to be working.

There isn't any "So." I just thought I'd sketch out some lingo and run it up the flagpole and check for salutes.

* But in the immediately preceding point and in those dealing with awareness and willfulness of misbelief cases are difficult to determine.

7. The heretic’s problem, not that of The Church

AS we used to jokingly say at seminary,"Wow! WHAT a PAStor!". The is, if you find yourself with the "care of souls", at least here in the West, it's your problem, at least if they come to you for help or counsel.

The problem of the culpability of the possessed is not so interesting, though I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Where the interest lies (for me) is in the questions of membership. (I'll use numbers this time.)

1. Is the Church the "mystical body of Christ" or not?
2. Can we articulate some standard by which we say this baptized person is NOT a member of the Church and that one isa member in very bad standing?
3. In terms of membership in (a) Christ's Body, or (b) the Church, what are the graces of Baptism?
4. Is that just such a legalistic Western Question that it makes you want to puke?
5. Do you think this: (a)All heresies interfere with or prevent theosis; (b) but only some heresies sort of ispo facto put the heretic out of the Church member, while others don't?
6. Is Atheism a heresy? (This is a question about the definition of "heresy". I'd say Atheism is NOT a heresy, Atheists are just flat OUT, while a heretic sort of exists in the context of Xty. For example, in my usage a heretic thinks IHS is a rutabaga, or a human only, while an Atheist thinks there isn't any God of whom IHS is the incarnation.

OH well. I have to do stuff after I answer A-G.