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To: stfassisi; Alamo-Girl

stfassi,

Of course, any reasonable person knows one cannot prove a negative. History does record, however, several church fathers claimed by the RCC that have denied the heresy known as transubstantiation. This one notion is, perhaps, the most egregious assault on the person of the Lord Jesus.

Of the Eucharist, he (Claudius) writes in his commentary on Matthew (A.D. 815) in a way which shows that he stood at the greatest distance from the opinions which Paschasius Radbertus broached eighteen years afterwards. Paschasius Radbertus, a monk, afterwards Abbot of Corbei, pretended to explain with precision the manner in which the body and blood of Christ are present in the Eucharist. He published (831) a treatise, “Concerning the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ.” His doctrine amounted to the two following propositions:—1. Of the bread and wine nothing remains after consecration but the outward figure, under which the body and blood of Christ are really and locally present. 2. This body present in the Eucharist is the same body that was born of the Virgin, that suffered upon the cross, and was raised from the grave. This new doctrine excited the astonishment of not a few, and called forth several powerful opponents—amongst others, Johannes Scotus. [11] Claudius, however, thought that the Lord’s Supper was a memorial of Christ’s death, and not a repetition of it, and that the elements of bread and wine were only symbols of the flesh and blood of the Saviour. [12] It is clear from this that transubstantiation was unknown in the ninth century to the Churches at the foot of the Alps. Nor was it the Bishop of Turin only who held this doctrine of the Eucharist; we are entitled to infer that the bishops of neighbouring dioceses, both north and south of the Alps, shared the opinion of Claude. For though they differed from him on some other points, and did not conceal their difference, they expressed no dissent from his views respecting the Sacrament, and in proof of their concurrence in his general policy, strongly urged him to continue his expositions of the Sacred Scriptures. Specially was this the case as regards two leading ecclesiastics of that day, Jonas, Bishop of Orleans, and the Abbot Theodemirus. Even in the century following, we find certain bishops of the north of Italy saying that “wicked men eat the goat and not the lamb,” language wholly incomprehensible from the lips of men who believe in transubstantiation. [13]

Notes:
[11] See Mosheim, Eccles. Hist., cent. 9. [12] “Hic [panis] ad corpus Christi mystice, illud [vinum] refertur ad sanguinem.” (MS. of Com. on Matthew.) [13] Allix, chap. 10


2,689 posted on 02/22/2008 6:18:02 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Nice try!

Claudius of 815 and Scotus were NOT early Church Fathers.

2,690 posted on 02/22/2008 7:11:53 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

Yet another proff that the RC edifice did not believe a seamless unchanging body of TRULY TRUEST TRUTH FROM ANY POINT IN HISTORY AND CERTAINLY NOT FROM 3XX AD or earlier.


2,694 posted on 02/22/2008 7:53:24 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Thank you so much for sharing your insights and thank you for the interesting excerpt!


2,703 posted on 02/22/2008 9:53:44 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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