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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Alamo-Girl; betty boop
[ My evidence is that those Apostles knew the OT and the verses I quoted above. Your argument would have to be that they were completely unaware of those verses or ideas ]

Good work but I have trouble with this.. The Apostles were "mostly" teenagers not at all educated in the sense of a Rabbi.. thats why they chose Mattias and not waiting for God to chose another Apostle.. which became Saul(Paul)..

They didn't even have Bibles, probably.. if even they could have read them.. However they did have the Holy Spirit who could have educated them by other means.. The Holy Spirit choosing Paul was a master stroke, I believe.. "He" WAS educated in the classical sense.. Schooled in several languages member of the proper "class", and trained in the semantics and sophistry of the Rabbis.. It is possible that the Holy Spirit could have made copies of the scriptures available to "the Apostles".. or by some other way.. But lumping all the Apostles into the same knowledge class is a mistake I believe..

The various so-called kinds Catholics revere the "Apostles" as a clerical caste too much I think.. Probably to lend credence to "Solo hand me down" authority.. and to verify that Jesus nicknamed Cephas "peter" instead of just calling him "a Rock"(metaphorically).. which he did.. The Apostle Cult is an "error" thats been given too little attention..

"The Apostle Cult".. I think I've just coined a phrase...Thats not to diminish the Holy Spirits work in the "the Apostles".. BUT it was/is/and will be the Holy Spirits work in those brothers.. and sisters by the way..

Transubstantiation MOCKS the Holy Spirit by saying Jesus re-en-fleshs when thats the reason for the Holy SPirit to even BE HERE because Jesus is with the Father.. The Seven Spirits of God (Revelation) must not be happy about that.. You know; cutting the Holy Spirit right out the so-called sacrament loop.. if indeed it even is a sacrament.. and not just an object lesson(communion)..

2,620 posted on 02/22/2008 5:54:37 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: hosepipe; Forest Keeper; betty boop; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
Jeepers, dear hosepipe, you covered a lot of ground in that post - the individual points of which could each result in a long sidebar discussion.

There is only one point though which I wish to address and that is the qualification for conveying the words of God.

So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. – John 21:15-19

The qualification of course is to love Jesus. If we love Jesus, we are to feed His sheep. Which is to say, convey the words of God to His sheep:

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matthew 4:4

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

Christ repeated it three times in John 21 showing the importance of the qualification and the duty. Also, He did not call Peter "Peter" or "rock" in the command - showing that the qualification applies to everyman.

If we love Jesus, we are to convey the words of God.

The Apostles, of course, love Him - most strongly, the Apostle John - so no wonder they conveyed the words of God.

To God be the glory!

2,633 posted on 02/22/2008 8:14:41 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: hosepipe; kosta50; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; irishtenor; the_conscience; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
The Apostles were "mostly" teenagers not at all educated in the sense of a Rabbi.. thats why they chose Mattias and not waiting for God to chose another Apostle.. which became Saul(Paul)...

By the time they took the reigns, I assume that the Apostles all knew their scriptures inside and out. They were sent, and I can't imagine God sending the Apostles out empty handed. I think of:

Mark 13:11 : Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

Luke 12:11-12 : 11 "When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."

So, just as you go on to say, they did have the Spirit to guide them. I think it's reasonable that this applied not only when they were in trouble, but also when they were preaching.

But lumping all the Apostles into the same knowledge class is a mistake I believe.

I don't think they all had equal knowledge, since they all continued to learn throughout life. However, I think it only makes sense that all of them were completely qualified by God to preach all of His word that God wanted preached. (At a minimum, I would think this would include a solid understanding of the OT.) God chose them, sent them, and gave them this specific task. He wouldn't leave 'em hanging. :)

3,273 posted on 02/28/2008 1:55:13 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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