Replies

***The point is how the “powers that be” dealt with what they considered at the time to be heresy. Which is to say, by “book burning” they attacked their own credibility and authority.***

I’m not sure that you realize how close the Church came to breaking. They were desperate to keep heresy out - look at what the situation is today where heresies of all kinds multiple and call themselves Christian.

***Which Church authority hated it and banned it at what time?

Philastrius, circa 380 A.D. Liber de Haeresibus***

I cannot find the Book of Henoch listed as hated or banned.

***me: ***I believe God. I love Him and trust Him. And He authenticates His own words to me, personally.***
you: How?

By bringing His words alive within.***

What does this mean to you? How are you sure that what you hear within is His voice and not a deceiver?

***I believe God. God the Father has revealed Himself in four ways: (1) through the Person of Jesus Christ His only begotten son, (2) through the indwelling Holy Spirit, (3) through Scripture and (4) through Creation both Spiritual and Physical.***

You first sentence makes some sense if written: I believe in God.

Points 1 through 3 are beliefs as well, however you try to phrase them. Point 4 is belief as well but belief that a condition exists which indicates the existence of God.

***The words of God come from God, not man. It doesn’t matter who He chooses to convey them or make a record of them - whether Moses, David, prophets, councils of Jews or Christians or a few goatherders in Qumran. ***

Do you claim that the words in your Bible are written by God?

Gen 1:
1
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth,
2
the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters.

There wasn’t a word in this entire sentence that existed when this Scripture was written. It was translated a number of times from one language to another until it arrived in whichever version of the English language Bible you happen to be referencing.

Men wrote this, and the best translations that we have are by Catholic diligence and perseverance.

***I’ve known Jesus Christ personally for a half century. He is not a hypothesis. He lives. Recognizing Him is easy for me now.***

You wouldn’t happen to have a digital photo that you could send along would you?

***If the message someone is trying to peddle is that Jesus Christ was a mortal, that His life began when He was conceived in Mary’s womb or when He was physically born – it is the spirit of anti-Christ. Reject it.***

Kind of irrelevant to this particular posting, but, yes we believe it.

***When someone brings spiritual advice, quickly and as thoroughly as possible - compare the message with the Scriptures. If the Scriptures do not agree, reject the message. If the Scriptures are silent on the message, take it as merely the harmless thoughts of a mortal.***

The Bereans searched the OT in order to see where it agreed with the New. The Bereans could not possibly have had the OT entirely jive with the New because Jesus has given us a whole new program. That’s what the Council of Jamnia was all about. They finally got hacked off at the upstart Christians and finally decided that they were not just another Jewish cult.

The teaching authority of Jesus was passed on to the Apostles and thus the Church; it certainly was not given to all men at their whim. Jesus left us no written words - it was the job of the Church to create documents to support its oral tradition; it did not happen the other way around.

***Those who have “ears to hear” are drawn to Christ, the living Word of God. The deceiver cannot fool us.***

The world is full of fallible men who claim to have ears that hear. They inhabit such as these fora and their claims are obviously inflated. All one seems to do is to claim that the indwelling Holy Spirit has led one to do something, and ergo, instant justification. If the deceiver was able to deceive Adam, Eve, and 1/3 of all the angels - who were made to serve God - what makes you so sure that you are able to defeat him?

***But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith***

So everyone who does not display all of these is of the devil and has no indwelling Spirit?

***To God be the glory! ***

As long as one does not exalt in his public piety or become proud of his public humility, then this phrase spoken by a true believer is exactly true.

Thank you for your post, dear MarkBsnr!

I'll make a quick reply - but I have to leave now and will not be able to respond further until this evening.

There is no justification or excuse for book burning.

I cannot find the Book of Henoch listed as hated or banned.

The condemnation is at CVIII in Liber de Haeresibus.

me: By bringing His words alive within.***

You: What does this mean to you? How are you sure that what you hear within is His voice and not a deceiver?

Already answered at post 2583

You first sentence makes some sense if written: I believe in God. Points 1 through 3 are beliefs as well, however you try to phrase them. Point 4 is belief as well but belief that a condition exists which indicates the existence of God.

I’m not at all surprised you see things this way. The aspect of Catholic teaching is man – hence the emphasis on God’s use of men (Mary, Saints, etc.,) Pope Benedict’s first encyclical having more narrative on the love of neighbor than the love of God - and so forth. The doctrines focus on the walk, sacraments, liturgy, what we do or say and those who have gone before us into the Light of God.

I do not criticize that perspective but note that mine is different. My focus is God alone and God is Light. There is nothing in between. Thus I do not believe “in” God – I believe Him, I love Him, I know Him, I trust Him.

Do you claim that the words in your Bible are written by God?

Gen 1: 1In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth,2 the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters.

There wasn’t a word in this entire sentence that existed when this Scripture was written. It was translated a number of times from one language to another until it arrived in whichever version of the English language Bible you happen to be referencing.

Men wrote this, and the best translations that we have are by Catholic diligence and perseverance.

Again, the words of God are not merely text on paper, pressure or sound waves – they are spirit and they are life.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

God did not need Moses to record the Ten Commandments for posterity, or the prophets or the Apostles – nor did He need the Catholic Church. It was their privilege to convey the words of God.

Nor can any being – whether spiritual or physical – thwart His will. God can speak in anyway He chooses to whomever He chooses in whatever means He chooses.

Truly, Jesus Christ IS the living Word of God.

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. – Revelation 19:11-16

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. – John 1:1

That is why it is so Spiritually tragically wrong-headed for any mortal or group of mortals to express a pride of authorship vis-à-vis the words of God. Jeepers, even Nebuchadnezzar (Dan 4:37) and Caiphas (John 11:49-52) were allowed to convey the words of God. Remember what happened to Herod for being proud. And note that the word of God grew and multiplied despite his pride of authorship.

And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them. And the people gave a shout, [saying, It is] the voice of a god, and not of a man. And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost. But the word of God grew and multiplied. - Acts 12:21-24

It is a distinct honor and privilege to convey God’s words at all. And it is very, very perilous to toy with them:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. – Deuteronomy 4:2

The bottom line is that a thing is true because God says it.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. – Genesis 1:3

For the word of the LORD [is] right; and all his works [are done] in truth. He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD. By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spake, and it was [done]; he commanded, and it stood fast. – Psalms 33:4-9

You continued:

me: I’ve known Jesus Christ personally for a half century. He is not a hypothesis. He lives. Recognizing Him is easy for me now.

You: You wouldn’t happen to have a digital photo that you could send along would you?

Digital photos are not needed because those with eyes to see and ears to hear recognize Him.

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. – John 10:3-5

You continued:

To the contrary, they were blinded to it (Song of Moses, Romans 11 et al):

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. – Matthew 5:17-18

You continued:

Defeating Satan is not my job. Jesus has already taken care of everything.

Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.- Jude 8-11

There is only one Great Commandment. Only one needful part. That is what all of us must concentrate on, because if we miss that – nothing else we do will matter as the Church of Ephesus learned. (Revelation 2:1-5)

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. – Matthew 22:37-38

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. – Luke 10:38-42

Like Mary, I have chosen that good part and no one (whether spiritual being or physical being) will take it away from me.

My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. I and [my] Father are one. – John 10:29-30

You continued:

me: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith

you: So everyone who does not display all of these is of the devil and has no indwelling Spirit?

Not of the devil necessarily – but not quite allowing the Light of God to shine unobstructed through their lives, thoughts, words and deed.

For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness. - Psalms 18:28

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. – Matthew 5:14-16

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light: - Ephesians 5:8

The LORD [is] my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD [is] the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalms 27:1

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. – I Thessalonians 5:5

To God be the glory, not man, never man.