[Alamo-Girl]

Evidently I have not made myself clear.

Christ did not dignify demands for signs, nor will I dignify demands for signs.

Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. – Matthew 12:38-40

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. – Matthew 4:5-7

That does not mean that visible signs are not present in my life. Indeed, I have testified to many such signs even here on the forum.

Moreover, of all the signs, the vital one all Christians receive is being reborn in the Spirit.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things? – John 3:5-12

It is not a visible sign, "but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth." It is a "heavenly thing" not an "earthly thing."

But you have excluded that sign on that very principle - i.e. that it is an experience, a symptom, not outwardly visible to you as the observer or measure of God.

But, man is not the measure of God.

The anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand the same thing you demand – God’s copyright notice, a bag of M&Ms. Or as you once demanded “God’s caller ID.”

Ironically, all these demands will indeed one day be met – but it will not be pleasant nor in time for man to be the measure of God and thus save himself. (emphasis mine)

Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye [that are] escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god [that] cannot save. Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. – Isaiah 45:20-25

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. – Revelation 13:8

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

[kosta50]

Christ did not dignify demands for signs, nor will I dignify demands for signs

Oh, baloney! Mark 16:17-18 quotes Christ as promising signs as evidence of the believers. You are cherry picking because what St. Mark says doesn't fit. Are you saying what St. Mark is saying is a lie? Actually, that part of his Gospel does not appear in older manuscripts; are you going to admit that this was a forgery then?

[kosta50]

That does not mean that visible signs are not present in my life. Indeed, I have testified to many such signs even here on the forum

And that proves what? Your testimony is just that. Your word.

[kosta50]

Moreover, of all the signs, the vital one all Christians receive is being reborn in the Spirit.

I thought all of scripture is equally important because all of ti is the word of God. Who says what is vital and what isn't? I am asking you again, is St. Mark's quote of Jesus promising signs as evidence of the believers a lie or not?

[kosta50]

But you have excluded that sign on that very principle - i.e. that it is an experience, a symptom, not outwardly visible to you as the observer or measure of God

You are dancing around the hot milk, cherry-picking verses as if that is going to invalidate what it says in Mark 16:17-18, which is as clear as it can be that Christ promises visible sings of the believers as part of the great commission.

But you have excluded that sign on that very principle - i.e. that it is an experience, a symptom, not outwardly visible to you as the observer or measure of God. I have not exlcudeed anything. I am asking you if you have the visible signs Christ promised will be evident in believers?

The anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand the same thing you demand – God’s copyright notice, a bag of M&Ms. Or as you once demanded “God’s caller ID.”

So, now you are callinhg me anti-Christ because you can't prove ythat your testiromony is anything but a feleing and the fact that you can reconcile Mark 16:17-18 with being a believer?

Who died and left you to judge?

[irishtenor]

Very, very good post. Thank you very much. You said it a lot better than I could.