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To: conservonator; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Quix; Lord_Calvinus; Manfred the Wonder Dawg; wmfights; ...
The puppet master god of Calvin is a week bully, a child who creates and destroys for no reason other than his amusement. It is not the God of Scripture. From the Catechism: ... Idolatry ...

I note that when you want to back up your claim that Calvin's God is not the God of Scripture you turn to the Catechism, not Scripture. Interesting.

In any event, the author of the article does not comment so much on what the official position of your Church is via the Catechism. Instead, he relates what he saw with his own eyes in terms of actual PRACTICE by Catholics. Would it be true that a "good" Catholic, or a Catholic in "good standing" would not spit in the face of a holding of the Catechism? That is, I take it to mean that if those the author observed really were bowing down to graven images, that you would say they were "bad" Catholics, is that right? Their practices would not reflect the teaching of the Church. Let's see how that works out. From the Catechism:

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. 158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:159

I hope we wouldn't have to argue over how well this is observed among the Catholic faithful. So AGAIN, on the one hand we have the teaching of the Church, and way over on the other side we have the actual practice of Catholics. The author of the article was obviously talking about the latter, what he saw with his own eyes. Therefore, your argument that if the Church teaches it then it is followed by the laity doesn't hold water.

BTW, who is "the Church" to you? I get confused all the time when talking to Catholics about this. Some say that means the hierarchy in the ivory towers alone, and some say it is all Catholics. I think we just saw how it cannot be said that "the Church" accepts the Catechism if "the Church" includes the laity. (That's not to mention that "the Church" would also reject the Pope by the same criterion.)

190 posted on 01/28/2008 9:46:45 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg

***Instead, he relates what he saw with his own eyes in terms of actual PRACTICE by Catholics.***

Sometimes I wonder if Catholics really don’t know it is their own beliefs and practices which keep causing idolaters to pop up in their garden. Ranting about the “puppet master god of Calvin” doesn’t do anything except make Catholics look petty and silly. WE are not responsible for the Mary worshippers and Saint worshippers and Pope worshippers and idol worshippers that spring up in the Catholic garden.

Now, if Catholics start believing in TULIP’s, carrying “The Institutes,” and have a bobble-head Calvin on the dash of their cars.... (Its not like we don’t convert Catholics to the truth of Calvinism all the time.)


205 posted on 01/29/2008 6:42:40 AM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: Forest Keeper
I note that when you want to back up your claim that Calvin's God is not the God of Scripture you turn to the Catechism, not Scripture. Interesting.

Really? Why? As a good "Bible believing" Calvinist, there should not be one word of Scripture that your unfamiliar with. That being the case, what good would it do to use what you have already rejected or misinterpreted in an attempt to help you see the errors of your ways? No good at all, at least that has been my experience.

In any event, the author of the article does not comment so much on what the official position of your Church is via the Catechism. Instead, he relates what he saw with his own eyes in terms of actual PRACTICE by Catholics.

No, he relates what he imagines he sees with his eyes, what he expects to see and what he wants to see. He, like not a small number of the Protestant contingent here on FR seem to have the remarkable ability to read the hearts and minds of other people as they pray. Uncanny.

You little rant about the Churches teachings and the ability of the flock to adhere to those teachings is pathetic, but not unexpected from a Calvinist. The simple fact of the matter is that the Church, that is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, proclaims the faith, many if not most who call them selves "Catholic" conform themselves in not in action (thought they probably pray in earnest for the strength to turn from the sin that holds them back) at least in faith, to the teachings of Christs Church, some don't. The fact that some fail in some way to assent or conform them selves to the teachings of the Church have no influence on the truth of those teachings any more than the thousands of murders a year committed by people who call them selves "Christian" detract from the 10 Commandments.

212 posted on 01/29/2008 7:03:41 AM PST by conservonator (spill czeck is knot my friend)
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To: Forest Keeper; conservonator; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Quix; Lord_Calvinus; ...
...the actual practice of Catholics. The author of the article was obviously talking about the latter, what he saw with his own eyes.

This is why the mission field is so fruitful in South and Central America. Once we can get Bibles into peoples hands they see the TRUTH. I believe we see so much idolatry because they are seeking, but they just haven't been shown that's not THE WAY.

332 posted on 01/29/2008 1:34:41 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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