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To: Dr. Eckleburg
those of Rome which believes the Holy Spirit is only given to the church hierarchy

This statement is a total misrepresentation of Catholic belief, as usual.

1,527 posted on 02/07/2008 12:10:14 PM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
From the catechism of the Catholic church...

737 - The mission of Christ and the Holy Spirit is brought to completion in the Church, which is the Body of Christ and the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

739 - ...Through the Church's sacraments, Christ communicates his Holy and sanctifying Spirit to the members of his Body.

740 - These "mighty works of God," offered to believers in the sacraments of the Church, bear their fruit in the new life in Christ, according to the Spirit. (This will be the topic of Part Three.)

Right off the bat the catechism has it wrong. The church is not the "temple of the Holy Spirit." Individual believers are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Each believer whom God has adopted from before the foundation of the world is a "lively stone" which makes up the church of God on earth.

The RCC has the sacraments being the means of Christ revealing Himself to us and paying for our sins, when Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit gives all believers the knowledge of what is good and true regarding Christ's one-time, accomplished sacrifice for all this sins of His flock.

And the RCC has "the mighty works of God" offered through the sacraments, when according to God's word, the "mighty work" of Christ has been offered and accepted by God and is now made known to each believer by the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

1,534 posted on 02/07/2008 1:04:55 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Campion
Do you believe priests are "another Christ?"

THE AMAZING GIFT OF THE PRIESTHOOD

And that as such, a man...

"becomes a priest through the power of Jesus Christ operating through the normal channels of his Church. Orders produce an ontological or real change in the one ordained. Once consecrated he is no longer a lay person and he is no longer exactly like non-priests. He has received a charism that consecrates him to continuing Christ's prophetic and sacramental ministry."

Can anyone raise the bread and wine and have it transform into the "actual body and blood of Christ?"

Or is this astounding ability to change matter only possessed by "another Christ?" Which means that the offering for Christ's sins can only be transmitted by "another Christ" who has been "ontologically changed" to render the bread and wine into Christ Himself for the forgiveness of sins?

And thus there is no individual forgiveness of sins within the RCC. Forgiveness has to take place by the actions of "another Christ" through the "sacramental ministry."

1,540 posted on 02/07/2008 1:33:18 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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