Conclusion from Peru and Mexico

email from Randall Easter | 25 January 2008 | Randall Easter

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

January 25, 2008

ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.

My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.

I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.

It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.

I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.

Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

In my experience . . . discernment is both a gift and a spiritual 'muscle' that needs developed, learned.

How about this?

"Discernment is a gift of a spiritual 'muscle' from God to a member of His family which needs to be learned and developed, and by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit, it will be."

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 2:11-16

[Mad Dawg]

This is where I begin to wonder what the point of these threads is.

The works follow Faith. They reflect it.

I don't know a single thinking Catholic who thinks otherwise.

[Quix]

It’s not a “practice”.

= =

Really???

Soooooooooooo it’s a figment of EVERYONE’S imagination with ABSOLUTELY NO impact on actions, behaviors, rituals

AT ALL???

Goodness, learn something every day.

[Quix]

LOL.

What a LOT of pontifications!

I don’t really support Calvin’s resulting magicsterical, either.

I sure don’t support the RC’s . . . which is considerably MORE ARROGANT in a long list of ways . . . some of which you outlined and illustrated quite well.

Thanks.

[Quix]

Much agree. Thanks.

[MarkBsnr]

No, I asked you to name the churches that were outside of the Church. Each Church was set up by a missionary or Bishop of that area and each was subordinate to that Bishop.

The Bishop of Rome (Peter) was considered first among equals, as Peter was the first among equals of the Apostles.

***The body of believers is the ONE TRUE CHURCH but no use in telling you that since you believe the heretical Roman church has that distinction.***

Interesting, since the Catholic Church itself defines heresy. Where did it declare itself in heresy?

[MarkBsnr]

***Since from the text we learn the crowds followed Him up the mountain and then back down the mountain, it certainly seems likely He knew His entire audience.***

Knew His entire audience? What does that mean?

They didn’t have high powered speaker systems in those days; if one did not possess iron lungs and stand with arms and legs akimbo such as the Shakepearean veterans did, one would not reach the full extent of one’s audience especially if it numbered in the thousands. Sitting on a rock does not lend itself to audibility to the crowds.

Just as there are passages where Jesus speaks directly to Peter, with the others overhearing, thus Jesus speaks to His disciples, with those nearby overhearing.

[Quix]

Much agree. Thanks.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It means Christ knew the crowds that followed Him were listening and thus, they, too, were His audience.

I think the fact some people believe the Sermon on the Mount wasn't intended to be received by the ears of all believers is really really strange. Talk about elitism and exclusion.

I know movies aren't Scripture, but have you ever seen the movie, "King of Kings" with Jeffrey Hunter? It illustrates how Christ was speaking to the crowds on the sermon on the mount. And it didn't look like any of them had a problem hearing Him. It makes sense He would walk upwards on the mountain, in order to better project His voice to the eager throng who came to listen and learn from Him.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Please don't post such long comments to me. Linking is our friend.

Such long comments overload my web-tv and I can't read any of it. Thanks.

[Marysecretary]

I went a bit further in my Matthew on the Mount series and it did mention that there were crowds of people there. M

[Marysecretary]

Your church never will define itself as heresy because it thinks everybody else’s church is. LOL.

[Marysecretary]

Absolutely. Many people do great works, even as unbelievers, but they don’t have Christ. Works without faith is dead. Faith without works is dead. God makes that very clear. But I don’t believe He meant that you had to have works to be saved.

[MarkBsnr]

***I think the fact some people believe the Sermon on the Mount wasn’t intended to be received by the ears of all believers is really really strange. Talk about elitism and exclusion.***

No doubt. There is the role of clergy and there is the role of laity. If one takes on the role of clergy, then there are many things that one must take on above and beyond the role of laity.

Not everyone’s role is the same; neither is everyone’s gifts from God the same.

[MarkBsnr]

***Works without faith is dead. Faith without works is dead.***

By phrasing it like this, May I assume that you are claiming that they are equivalent?

If they are, then your statement immediately following:

***But I don’t believe He meant that you had to have works to be saved.***

does not follow.

[MarkBsnr]

***Your church never will define itself as heresy because it thinks everybody else’s church is.***

It’s not my Church. It’s God’s.

The Church defines heresy in terms of theology. If somebody or institution fits the bill on one or more, then so be it.

[hosepipe]

[ (The assumption is another doctrine altogether, Oh wait, you mean ...) ]

LoL...

[hosepipe]

[ There may be an indication I'm not able to see that you understand the doctrine, but I sure don't see it. "Flesh"? Precluding the spiritual work of the Spirit, when the "body" in question is a "spiritual body"? ]

We seem to talking on two different wavelengths.. Thats o.k. happens here all the time.. Thats what, he that has ears to hear, then let him hear.. is all about.. There may be things we both see tha same, and others our observation posts show differently.. I am ok with that too.. Actually I've noticed thats the way it has always has been.. from the beginning.. Very obvious on this and other threads too.. Can we all get along?.. Answer: sometimes..

[Forest Keeper]

FK: ***It is true that we do not relate to Him on an infinite level, but we do relate to Him on a personal level, as God. On an infinite level, we are simply part of His creation, like rocks and trees. But on a personal level we are separated from the rest of His creation. We can actually have a personal relationship with Him.***

I think that you might be mixing up the personal touch and interaction with Jesus the man with the impersonal and largely standoffish and angry God of the OT. Part of Jesus’ mission to us was to provide that.

I'm not sure what there is to mix up. Jesus interacted with men on a personal level, and the God of the OT did the same. Are they different Gods? Of course not. God exercised His justice in the OT, but He also showed His love for His children as well. How many chances did He give the Jews? Seventy times seven, etc.? :) He disciplined them out of His profound and very personal love for them. The OT God is very personal.

FK: ***The alternative would be an impersonal God, whom we would experience as unknowable, irrational, and subject to chance. No personal relationship would be possible and man would be left unfulfilled.***

Exactly. That’s what the Jews experienced throughout the OT.

How can you say that? The evidence shows just the opposite. Do you think Job would have remained faithful to an irrational God after being through what he went through? No way. All of the OT righteous had personal relationships with God. It's right there in the text.

FK: ***Before there was a creation there was the Trinity.***

There was no ‘before’. God existed, exists and will exist at all moments in time.

Please reread. Creation was an event in real time. There was a time before creation.

FK: ***Without a personal God we would just be rats wandering randomly through a maze.***

A ‘personal’ God in many cases is one that an individual creates.

That has nothing to do with the truth or not of whether the one true God is personal and rational or impersonal and irrational.

FK: ***We belong to Him and no one can snatch us out of His hands.***

We can, however, walk away.

If you are "one" then you are saying you can snatch yourself out of God's hands. The scripture forbids this. Man's need to be independent and powerful causes additions to the scriptures, also forbidden by the scriptures. Your Catechism says that God conveyed what He wanted to convey in the Bible. How meaningless the Bible is since it doesn't include the countless number of exceptions that your tradition adds.

[irishtenor]

I might add...

By their fruits you shall know them. Are they exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit? Is their life an example of Christ? Are they a light shining in the darkness?