Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Not really.
I’m not around RC’s locally much at all. Certainly not when they are worshipping. The startling idol and altar in the Restaurant was the closest I’ve gotten.
I certainly didn’t query the pilgrims in the Vatican for their names . . . nor those in Asia.
***I doubt Michaelangelo started out intending the Pieta to be an idol. It has sure become so. What I didn’t understand was with both Christ and Mary in the statue, Mary seemed to get more attention, adoration, worship from the pilgrims.***
Veneration, sure. We appreciate so very much what she did for us in bearing the Christ child, in raising Him to adulthood and standing by Him during His passion. I don’t believe that it is worship; none of the folks that I know worship Mary. But we are so absolutely grateful to her for what she has done for all of us.
***Certainly not all pilgrims prostrated themselves before this or that. But some did.***
I imagine that when first faced with such a holy place, people will do what their hearts lead them to do. I have been in many holy places - the Dom in Koln (second only to St. Peter’s in Europe) almost overwhelmed me when I entered. I felt God’s presence everywhere in that cathedral to the greatest degree that I have ever felt it. I almost prostrated myself on the spot just upon entering.
***The facts will either be ignored, dodged or some such and some minutae will be siezed on instead.***
There is a difference between facts and beliefs. One’s beliefs do not necessarily coincide with established facts. And vice versa.
***I certainly didn’t query the pilgrims in the Vatican for their names . . . nor those in Asia.***
You keep making claims and are not able to back them up.
I have prostrated myself in moments/places of worship as well.
But never TO an idol or anything or anyone else but God.
There may have been once as an act of submission to a Pastor but I deeply regretted it immediately.
The admission was that those who prostrate themselves before a statue of Mary would be worshipping her. I have seen such . . .
That’s the point.
Dance around it to your heart’s content.
Consider it however you will.
My memory is not perfect but not that flawed either.
Sounds like you construe me as a lying Alzheimer’s patient.
LOL.
Must be comforting to your biases.
Very good question. The Church believes that she was resurrected body and soul. Only the Catholic Church has a dogma to that effect pronounced in 1952 or 1954. I think it is presumptious to assume tat we know God's judgment.
***The admission was that those who prostrate themselves before a statue of Mary would be worshipping her. I have seen such . . .***
You keep making unsubstantiated claims. You’ve seen this, you’ve done that, you’ve experienced the other.
Why is it so important that you present no evidence?
I cited the evidence of my experiences and observations at the Vatican.
I’ve seen similar things in Asia.
I never really imagined that any evidence I cited would satisfy the RC edifice reps hereon.
Cheers.
***My memory is not perfect but not that flawed either.
Sounds like you construe me as a lying Alzheimer’s patient.***
I don’t know who or what you are. The only evidence that I’m able to gather is from your posts. You claim much; you evidence little. I don’t know who Quix is. I’ve never met you and I cannot say if you are 61 or you are 21; if you are in academe or if you are on skid row; if you are white or black or Asian or polka dot.
I don’t know who you are or even what you represent.
***The Church believes that she was resurrected body and soul. ***
Yes.
Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.
Benedicta tu in mulieribus,
et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus.
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei,
ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc,
et in hora mortis nostrae.
Amen.
GLORIA PATRI, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.
Domine Iesu, dimitte nobis debita nostra, salva nos ab igne inferiori, perduc in caelum omnes animas, praesertim eas, quae misericordiae tuae maxime indigent.
May God be glorified; may Mary be revered.
***I cited the evidence of my experiences and observations at the Vatican.***
You claim unsubstantiated claims. You have presented no evidence; you have nothing to back up your claim. If the problem is as widespread as you claim, you ought to have ample evidence amounting to proofs.
***I never really imagined that any evidence I cited would satisfy the RC edifice reps hereon.***
Then why did you present them? Why did you even bring them up? I thought that you were in academe? What would motivate an individual to do such things?
Given such a paucity of knowledge about me . . . you sure seem to have formed some intensely strong biases, impressions, beliefs about me . . . thankfully, many of which appear to be wholesale wrong.
BTW, I am 61. I do have a very intensely earned PhD . . . and I don’t tend to say things that are unlikely to be true.
The problem is plenty widespread.
I’d have thought you’d have noticed yourself.
Interesting.
Aside from Mary's role, what is our difference about the Incarnation? And, how does this relate to predestination vs. foreknowledge?
***BTW, I am 61. I do have a very intensely earned PhD . . . and I don’t tend to say things that are unlikely to be true.***
For the first, I have no evidence, neither have I to the second. I do have evidence that your third claim is patently false based upon your posts.
***The problem is plenty widespread.
I’d have thought you’d have noticed yourself.
Interesting.***
The biggest problem is unsubstantiated claims. I’d appreciate you backing up any of the wild claims that you have posted to date. In a previous post, you postulated that I thought of you as an Alzheimer’s patient.
I don’t think of you quite as an Alzheimer’s patient.
Wellllllllll,
I find the !!!TRADITION!!!, magicsterical, rubber ‘Bible,’ rubber history and rubber logic “evidences”
wholly lacking, nonsensical, false, embarrassingly silly and bankrupt, irrational, cheap, tawdry, blasphemous, idolatrous . . . etc.
You’re not happy with my evidences.
I doubt either of us are going to change very greatly regarding the other’s evidences.
Personally, I think folks with eyes to see and ears to hear warrant evidence much more than folks given to leaning on the wet noodle pole of the above ‘sources.’
But mostly, I’ve learned what I’ve learned from a lifetime of intense curiosity and intense observation.
I write, as noted before, mostly for the lurkers. Those lurkers with eyes to see and ears to hear “get it” as a fair number of have noted to me privately.
Those with sufficient interest search out additional sources and the like.
I mostly don’t feel obligated to provide you with much at all.
Cheers.
***You’re not happy with my evidences.***
You haven’t provided any.
***I doubt either of us are going to change very greatly regarding the other’s evidences.***
You haven’t provided any. You’ve just made wild claims.
***Personally, I think folks with eyes to see and ears to hear warrant evidence much more than folks given to leaning on the wet noodle pole of the above ‘sources.’***
In other words, you cannot prove anything that you say.
***I write, as noted before, mostly for the lurkers. Those lurkers with eyes to see and ears to hear “get it” as a fair number of have noted to me privately.***
Give my love to the greys.
***Those with sufficient interest search out additional sources and the like.***
And the reptilians.
***I mostly don’t feel obligated to provide you with much at all.***
As I’ve come to expect. You make wild claims and provide no evidence. You act affronted when asked for evidence. I am willing to debate you; it would be sufficient if you would provide proofs along with your claims.
Unto ages of ages.
***May God be glorified; may Mary be revered
Unto ages of ages.***
Amen.
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