Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
“Is that just such a legalistic Western Question that it makes you want to puke?”
Only if you are heading into that “created grace” stuff.
That’s better.
But it' snot funny.... :)
“How can this be justified? This happened down through the centuries, and not just at the hands of Roman Catholics but Protestants as well. Lord have mercy on us.”
In the context of an Anglo-Saxon, post Enlightenment society, it cannot be except as a theoretical construct. In other societies, societies which were/are arguably far holier, far more likely to foster theosis in its citizens than ours, it was/is not only acceptable, it was expected and required for the good of the society and individuals.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus says, “I will build my “Church” (not churches).
What other Churches do you think Christ was talking about?
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - Jesus gave the apostles binding and loosing authority. But this authority requires a visible Church because “binding and loosing” are visible acts. The Church cannot be invisible, or it cannot bind and loose.
So, Jesus gave authority to bind or destroy certain things
“”Then how, pray tell, do you intend to enforce it?””
Education and Prayer and not being afraid of persecution to publicly speak out against evil
If it saves even one soul it is worthwhile to lay down your life for them if it leads them away from evil.
“”I am a great sinner, and I am in no position to sit in personal judgment of anyone. “”
I am too and it is only through extreme humility that Christ can even begin to use me.
“”Constantine commanded that the writings of Arius and his friends should everywhere be delivered up to be burned; concealment of them was forbidden under pain of death””
Constantine was not part of the Magesterium of the Church and was branded a heretic by the Early Church fathers( I can provide the writings that prove this if you wish) because he did not believe in the Divinity of Christ.
Constantine only legalized Christianity and thankfully he was only baptized on his deathbed.
It’s been over 2000 years and the catholic Church still stands as the Pillar and foundation of truth. The Gates of hell has not prevailed just as Christ promised
Isa. 35:8, 54:13-17 - this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)
INDEED!
THX.
PRAISE GOD FOR YOUR FAITHFULNESS
TO
HIM!
Again, you have a “church” that will tell you what to believe,and that’s not a church but a cult.
= = =
I believe that every congregation has an obligation to provide for every man an answer as do individual Christians.
However . . . mindless authoritarianism vs hooking individuals up to God and LETTING HIM LEAD THEM directly
is
cultish, at least.
You must have never read her books.. She is not a socialist.. or communist which is a socialist.. Most people dont know what a socialist is.. let alone a communist..
Coulter knows expressly what both are..
Republicans are for a republican form of government.. and
Democrats are for a democracy which is Mob Rule by mobsters which results in socialism..
Ann is well aware of both of them..
You know her being a Constitutional Lawyer and such..
No doubt you are a progreesive using the word facist so easily..
I thank you for your prayers, sir.
It didn’t turn out well - after her second divorce after me, our son had some serious issues.
I do look. And God has answered me in my prayers beyond my dreams.
But were/are they? Or did forcefully eliminating heretical teachings just give them that appearance? (I admit I do not know the answer to this.) We confess that God does not force us to come to Him, but as far as I can tell that's exactly what was attempted: "The authorities intended to make the reading of such writings simply impossible."
Constantine did more than that.. He forced the population of pagans to become christians by force if need be.. which demanded priests like they had before.. You know to organize everything..
Which the population didnt seem to care much since they worshiped idols anyway.. more or less.. I suspect less. The romans were known (many) to adopt the gods of the people they conquered takeing the problem of my god(roman gods) against your god out of the picture, somwhat. That way the conquered didnt rebel as much..
Constantine forced christ on pagans as the State sponsored religion.. Roman christianity then became somewhat nominal for most all but not all.. Nominal christians today are more or less about the same.. ceremonial acts of show.. the flesh masquerading as spirit.,
***Just because you mean well doesn’t mean that you are thinking Christian thoughts. That’s why Jesus left us the Bible, and why the Catholic Church is so evil.***
Jesus didn’t leave us the Bible. The Church did. The Reformers try to have the Bible without the Church. That is not opinion.
Evil does violence to the Truth. It lies and deceives. The Reformation tries to turn cause and effect on their heads. Jesus caused the Church; the Church caused the Bible. To say that it is else is untrue and attacks the very Truth of Jesus’ ministry on Earth. That is evil.
If the early church did not believe Jesus was God or treat him as such until John wrote the Gospel around 90 A.D. then what were they celebrating in the bread and wine during communion? As Jews they were forbidden to eat or drink anything with blood and that was confirmed in the early church in Acts 15. If they did not believe Jesus was God why would they break the commandment and disobey the Elders in Jerusalem?
***We are finite and God is infinite. How can a human have a personal relationship with the infinite?
That is the failure of all religions, save for Christianity. Because Christ took on also human nature, we can relate to Him in that way. Without Him, God is simply a distant and unimaginable entity.***
How in the world did I know that you would be the only one to get it. This is unimagined in the Reformed world. The Reformed God is the mover and shaker of all; the reason that one can point to when sinning with reckless abandon, and without repentence.
*** Each of our lives is unique in a thousand individual way.. What a plan that God would test his plan(s) though millions of different iterations..***
Why would an all knowing, all seeing God need to test anything?
Constantine did not believe in the Divinity of Christ ,HP
Do you believe in the Divinity of Christ?
Do you believe Christ is God in the Flesh?
Sometimes the LORD takes us through trials to prepare us for something. I hope and pray it all works out.
I do look. And God has answered me in my prayers beyond my dreams.
So there you go. Life experience will reveal GOD if you look.
***The reason the teacher tests is not to determine what he/she knows, but whether you will do what you have learned or are about to learn.***
God already knows. So what is God doing testing humans?
“But were/are they? Or did forcefully eliminating heretical teachings just give them that appearance? (I admit I do not know the answer to this.)”
On balance, I think they really were more likely to foster theosis than our societies in the West (and now the East too, I suppose). What happened in this life was of little consequence as the focus was, ultimately, on theosis. You know, only in a society like that could bishops themselves come up with the concept that the floor of hell was paved with the skulls of bishops! A political/social system headed by a God annointed Emperor presiding over a Christian Oecoumene, where the people saw themselves as members of an Omogenia fits a world where theosis is the proper goal of everyone. We see a sort of a funhouse mirror vestige of it in the whole Mohammedan idea of the Umma and a worldwide caliphate. Like I said earlier, in a system like that, different, heterodox ideas are seen as destructive and in fact they are destructive of a society like that. But that society places virtually no value on individual opinion except to the extent that it is expressed within the context of “The Church” and open questions, it should be noted, were openly and widely debated at all levels of society until a council decided a question.
What we have in the West is the inevitable result of events such as the Reformation and the Enlightenment arriving a few hundred years after Magna Carta. The system of government we have is attuned to a religious view of salvation which is near antithetical to the theosis theology of the East. This shouldn’t be surprising given what the reformers saw themselves as rebelling against. Nobody or at least no government forces people to believe one way or the other in the West. It can be argued that that has lead to a spiritually deadly, or even dead society.
So, Jesus gave authority to bind or destroy certain things
Even if you take that passage as the establishment of infallible Petrine authority, nowhere does it say "destroy."
ZS: Then how, pray tell, do you intend to enforce it?
SFA: Education and Prayer and not being afraid of persecution to publicly speak out against evil
If it saves even one soul it is worthwhile to lay down your life for them if it leads them away from evil.
Well said, and that's exactly what we are called to do as Christians (and I fall far short.) This has nothing to do with violent and destructive censorship.
Constantine was not part of the Magesterium of the Church and was branded a heretic by the Early Church fathers( I can provide the writings that prove this if you wish) because he did not believe in the Divinity of Christ.
I'm well aware, but the "pain of death" part stuck out at me. Did the Roman Catholic Church oppose the death penalty then as it does now?
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