Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. – John 6:44
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. - John 3:5-8
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:1-9
Really? And what makes you think you change for the "better" is really something God wants you to do and is not something you want to do to be on the "safe" side? If you are assured of your salvation, then sin boldly as Luther urges, and show confidence that nothing you do will affect it.
There is no "safe side" in this context. Those who think they are covered with a choice like that are almost certainly doomed. Pascal's wager FAILS because it is not a choice that is ours to make (ultimately). If a lost person came to me and said that he had decided to make himself better so that maybe God would accept him I would try to work this into the conversation:
Rom 7:18-19 : 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do — this I keep on doing.
So, no one who is non-elect can simply "choose" to do what is good and pleasing to God. Faith is what matters.
If I understand why it is that I am assured of salvation, then I also understand that "sinning boldly" is nonsense in the way you mean it. I know what Luther meant, and other Reformers also know. You are free to cling to that phrase if you like, but you and others who do NOT understand it are the only ones who interpret it as you do. That works out fine since you don't believe Luther anyway. :) Some on your side even call him satanic. I suppose I might agree if I interpreted him as you all do.
And who is the judge of whether you are a "better" person now and you are not just hiding behind your good deeds? Why, it is you, of course, who is the judge.
The Bible tells us to judge ourselves on such things. We are told to do reality checks on such things as taking the Lord's Supper. Our mission, through sanctification, is to conform ourselves to the image of Christ. Therefore, I always want to be aware if that is happening in my life at any given time. I don't understand why you would see this as a negative for us. Since we do not believe that deeds get us into Heaven, there is nothing for us to "hide" behind. We want to be aware that we are doing good deeds in general, but we don't put any sort of emphasis on it the way your side does, for the reasons your side does. If I was an Apostolic, then I would normally be worried if I was doing enough good deeds, and might well judge myself better in order to "hide". So, your supposition really applies much more to your side.
We do the same thing, but we keep repenting because we never assume that we are "good enough" for God.
You also never assume that Christ's sacrifice was good enough to save you. :)
And if God is the micromanager in charge, then the turn for the "worse" must be God's will as well and by and of itself must be good because its from God, right?
If it is part of God's plan, then "yes". There have been several times where I went a little south in faith. But then, after suffering something or other, I come back to the full faith with a lesson learned and my faith is stronger. I give God credit for this, rather than think that I toughed it out on my own.
Isn't it the Reformed theology's premise that sin is something God uses to fulfill His plan? Then how can sin be bad?
It's that big picture/little picture discussion I went through a while back. Certainly God uses sin to accomplish His big picture plan, but He still hates individual small picture sin EVEN THOUGH He uses it.
Why, with this mindset, the reformed ought to be thanking and praising God when someone gets raped, killed or terminally ill! It's all good. But they sure don't act like they believe it's good!
Well, we ARE specifically taught that we are blessed when we are insulted and persecuted: :)
Matt 5:11 : "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
So, I try to thank God when that happens. :)
Of course the answer is that what is good according to God's plan is often not what we seem to experience as humans. When we lose a loved one do we celebrate like we should if we "think" the person is in Heaven? Sometimes, but often not. More normal is for us to spend a period of time feeling sorry for ourselves because of the separation that is INTENDED by physical death, even though it will be pathetically short in eternal terms. God created us this way and ordained that it was right and proper to mourn:
Eccl 3:1-4 : There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: 2 a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, 3 a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, 4 a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, ...
Someone should write a song, ... :)
I believe so, too. On many occasions in the past, I have been deeply moved by kosta50's and Kolokotronis' writings in regard to the splendors of the Orthodox confession of faith. There's never been anything in those testimonies that I, as a Catholic, would object to or argue with.
My problem is I just can't stand Christians arguing with one other! I don't see any reason for it at all. God is in charge, and His Judgment is superior to our own mortal, finite judgments about who or what is "faithful" to His Truth. He knows who His Sheep are, far better than any of us do. I just leave it at that, fully trusting in Him....
Anyhoot, it seems to me that sowing discord and division in the Body of Christ is not what we, as Christians (though of different confessions), are called to do. Or so it seems to me, FWIW.
It's worse than arguing with Evos, or materialists, or atheists!
Thank you so much for your kind words of support, my dearest sister in Christ!
Amen. I can only hope that in the next few years, when all the grits hit the fan in America, that these barriers will come down and Jesus will reveal Himself as He is to all of us. Then it won’t matter if we’re protestant or Catholic. We’ll be in this together.
It’s worse than arguing with Evos, or materialists, or atheists!
= = =
OF COURSE, Dear Sister in Christ.
They are merely arguing opinions . . . LOL . . . about . . . mostly nothing of nothing import based on nothing beyond chance plus time . . .
RELIGIONISTS . . . and hopefully particularly Christians
are going on and on
about LIFE—PARTICULARLY ETERNAL LIFE—ISSUES OF OUR VERY SOULS, IDENTITIES, ESSENCES.
NOW,
IF
someone will please step up with a
one size fits all; absolutely 100% accurate at all times in all contexts for all contingencies
sieve
to sort out
Contending for the faith vs sowing discord . . .
I’ll be greatly appreciative!
No, because faith is not subject to proof or disproof. I have no problem with anyone's faith. I have a problem with those who state their faith as if it were a provable fact. When they say "the Bible is the word of God" instead of "I believe the Bible is the word of God." Or when they tell me "Indwelling spirit moves me" versus "I believe the indwelling spirit moves me."
Well, for those of us who believe the Great Commission applies to us, we have to do a little better than that. :) Since you all don't believe in evangelism by the laity, it doesn't occur to you that your faith should be something you can SHOW to another person as being something they can relate to. If someone wandered in off the street into your Church and asked why he should accept your faith, I can only guess at the answer. :) Suffice it to say that I suspect it would be singularly weak.
But, that's just the way your Church is set up. Sharing God's Good News is not your problem, it is for others to do. One big difference is that with your position you, or even your priests, cannot show another person anything that is REAL to him, whereas to the Reformed (and other Protestant) evangelicals, that is what we seek to do.
Bible thumpers obviously believe that their faith can be proven, which is why they force feed the Bible down everyone's throat, while admitting that God gives us faith!
In personal ministry, no Bible-believing Christian I know or have heard of force feeds the Bible on anyone. The Bible teaches not to do that:
1 Peter 3:15 : But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, ...
Therefore, whoever you're talking about is not us. Also, I assume that this verse does not apply to you, however, it does apply to us.
kosta, IIRC,
you fuss at me just as much; at least about as much
when I put things
I believe; feel; sense . . .
as when I hurridly put them otherwise. I prefer to qualify such statements, too. I haven’t observed that qualifying such statements makes a microgram’s worth of difference to the naysayers hereon.
IOW, I think your fussing protestation to FK on this issue is a straw dog.
But truly, I have found 2 Timothy chapters 2 through 4 particularly helpful in discerning between contending for the faith (Jude) and sowing discord among the brethren (Proverbs 6).
Well he cannot whistle for the gentiles the way he did with the Jews... (i.e. Nebucanezzar, Darius, Cyrus) like that..
He might something else in store for the christians <<- whatever that means..
Whatever he does will the best for all.. tough love works best with some..
No. Can you show that all the OT righteous were showed some sort of miracle before they were considered righteous? I don't think so. Job comes to mind. I'm certain there are tons of other examples. Besides, go back to the big verse:
John 20:29 : 29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Notice the tense. This was before the miracles stopped coming on a regular basis.
But, think about it: if the whole world did not get converted when the miracles were occurring on a regular basis, why would it accept something on blind faith?
It wouldn't. God never intended to convert the whole world. He intended to convert exactly all of His elect. Not one more and not one less. That is exactly what He did.
But, let me ask you something: what would it take for you to believe (and willing to die for that belief) that a homeless man in a New York subway, begging, is Christ almighty?
I have no idea of the mechanism, but if God wanted to reveal that to me He would not need to break a sweat. He has revealed as much to all of His elect in one form or another. If it happened, I assume it would be the same way the Father revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. However, I am unaware that Christ has actually done anything like what you specifically suggest since His Ascension.
Everybody is right "where" their are supposed to be..
All (self)sorted into their sheep pens (John 10)..
Jesus didnt forbid denominations/clubs/sheep pens..
But he seems to calling some out of them..
LISTEN..(and everybody said amen "thinking of the other guys denomination")... LoL...
There is only One "one-size-fits-all" (though that's a clumsy way to say it in this context): Our Lord Jesus Christ, in Whom we live and move and have our being. Put your faith and trust in Him alone -- not in your or my or some other person's moral, finite judgment -- then leave the rest to Him.
He is Truth, and He is Love. Ultimately, the two are inseparable....
Thank you for writing, dear brother in Christ -- even if you sound a tad exasperated over my "naggings".... Sorry; I'll just shut up for now.
Peace be with you!
“But, let me ask you something: what would it take for you to believe (and willing to die for that belief) that a homeless man in a New York subway, begging, is Christ almighty?”
“However, I am unaware that Christ has actually done anything like what you specifically suggest since His Ascension.”
Not since the acsension, but in one of the most unlikely spots, he revealed himself as Messiah, one criminal to another, while both were undergoing capital punishment. Even one of the guards recognized him while being executed. Using that as an example, if Christ came as a homeless person, those called would recognize him, just as they will the “thief in the night”.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NO! NO!
NEVER SHUT UP in my direction.
I covet any ‘naggings’ or anything else you care to exhort me with or even just toss my way ‘for effect.’
I greatly respect you and your wise sayings and even your pontificating burps in your sleep.
Please avoid hesitating in my direction! LOL
Just be aware that I try to take all inputs to Daddy for His suggested disposition and application!
LUB
INTERESTING IDEA.
Have often speculated at something similar.
I do think personalities and sensibilities often over-influence RELIGIOUS and sadly even spiritual
conclustions AND behaviors.
And, God does seem to PREFER DIVERSITY
though . . . not per se in core TRUTH.
A lot of things some folks think are core will likely turn out not to be . . .
As John and Paula Sandford wrote in
TRANSFORMATION OF THE INNER MAN . . .
Truth without love is brutality;
Love without truth is useless [or worse] sentimentality.
The application of Christ’s standard in each of our lives . . . in each of our contexts and sets of contingencies . . . takes
brokenness before The Lord as well as moment by moment staying full up of Holy Spirit.
imho, of course.
John 10 is quite deep in its implications...
Little wonder many would rather overlook the implications..
Because for sure there are Goat pens(religions) as well..
All self sorted and quite tidy..
Is God COOL or WHAT?..
What a plan..
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