Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
I guess we do. Finished means perfect, complete. That includes the delivery of the true faith. The faith is delivered once from the lips of the Lord Himself. He said nothing of someone else picking up after Him. The same thing with Revelation. If Christ is the fullest revelation of God, why is there a "sequel?".
If all Christ did with His life was make it possible for us to save ourselves by doing enough works, then I consider it a cheap death
That's not what the Orthodox/Catholics believe. Our works are a reflection of our faith. We do works because, as you said yourself, God left us work to do. Being restored to the likeness of God is not accomplished with a magic wand.
The fullness of God's revelation could be expressed as Christ Himself, plus the Holy Spirit, plus the Scriptures, plus creation itself, and perhaps other things...
The NT, more precisely, the Gospels, are the narratives of God's revelation to man in His human nature. Without that, Christianity is meaningless because it would worship an unknown, distant deity which our human minds cannot conceive. In Christ, we can relate to God through His human nature, as use His humanity as our standard of what humans ought to be like.
The rest of the scriptures are either hints leading to the Gospels, or after-the-fact human interpretation and imitation of His teachings and life as witnessed by the Gospels. The book of Revelation is not even that. It's more like a de novo prophesy as if Christ did not fulfill the law and the prophets. It suggests that Christ did not reveal all that was to be revealed. And it flies in the face of the Great Commission that the Apostles are to teach what has been revealed, and not to invent or add to His revelation by some heavenly Internet "downloads."
Anyway, the full revelation of God is certainly more than one group of men's interpretation of the Gospels alone.
Yes, but nothing can top the Gospels.
Kosta: Ancient usage of quotes is not verbatim transcription of someone's utterances, but what the author believed that someone intended to say. This flies in the face of usage of quotes just as our terminology (coming from OT) is given Christianized meaning which differs from that in Judaism.
FK: That can't be. NT quotes of OT statements are VERBATIM.
Excuse me?!? And what evidence do you have that they are? Let me guess: the OT, right? LOL!
If you'd bother to look up the issue, you'll find that ancients did not quote verbatim but when they do quote "verbatim" they expressed what the author believed the person would have said. That is just a historical and literary fact and style.
It is satan who misquotes scripture, as he did when he lied to Eve about what God said
No one is talking about "misquoting" here, counsellor. I am saying that alleged quotes (which the Greeks and Jews don't use) are not verbatim quotes. In many instances, they simply can't be. Such as what Jesus said on the Cross. Except for John, all other Apostles were far away, hiding, to hear anything being said there. And please don't tell me the HS "told them." The get-out-of-all-dead-end-corners-about-the-Bible card. LOL!
Under what you are saying your reverence for the Gospels would have to be thrown out if all it amounts to is the "best efforts" to remember specific conversations from decades earlier. Nobody could do that in such detail (on his own).
Well, they copied from Mark, who was never there, and who heard it from Peter, who was hiding. That much is known. And they used the same source (narrative, oral tradition otherwise known as the "Q"), plus they added a little of their own personal twist to their concordance. John,on the other hand, writes 60 years after Christ and his Gospel doesn't resemble anything close to the other three.
That's not throwing out reverence for the Gospel; it's simply not making the Gospels what they are not. They are narratives according to their human authors, motivated moved by ("inspired:) by their faith. That doesn't mean they are perfect and free of human errors.
K:Yes, by all means, I agree. The key word is something. That could be a whole buffet of things.
Hey that's the first step. In the end though it is only the LORD who opens your eyes.
And how would you know who is elect or non-elect? If St. Thomas was a doubting Apostles (as all of them were), does that mean they wee not "elect?" How presumptuous!
Of a truth, self-defense is an instinctive reaction of man - e.g. to raise his arm when someone is about to strike a blow - or to return a blow, especially in the hope of making it stop.
It takes enormous Spiritual discipline to turn the other cheek - it requires living the Great Commandment, loving God surpassing above all else, putting His will above our instinctive self-defense.
Letting go and letting God.
I suspect that we all struggle with it:
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:38-48
It is not what we think or say or do but Whose we are, where we live, in Whom we abide. We are not perfect, He is.
There is only One Great Commandment.
To God be the glory!
It always goes back to works and uncertainty for the EO doesn't it.
***you must be referring to the outrageously extrapolated splinters from balsa wood toothpicks that the RC edifice has constructed so many skyscrapers on.***
Nope, I’m referring to the instructions given to us by Jesus.
God does not have a magic wand?...
When did this happen?..
He said let there be light... and there was..
He said let there be a man from mere dirt and there was..
He even said after being born you MUST be born again.. and some were..
He even spit on some dudes eyes and created eyeballs..
All from a magic wand.. now thats magicterial..
If you get my drift...
That's all? Nine billion dollars is pocket change in our federal budget. If that were true, we should have the wall built by now wihtout even feleing it. But beware that estimates ae just that, and are always less than true cost (that's how you get them approved, by making the look cheap).
The problem with walls is that they need maintenance. Unmaintained walls just become another unmaintained border. Holes appear in them and people slip in.
Cut of the demand created by unethical greedy businesses, by enfrcing the existing laws and depriving them on their illegitimate profits with fines, and the illegal imigration will not only stop but reverse itself. Once they can't find jobs, they will go back. No wall needed.
I like that portion about marvelous class. He sure has it, and He enables US to have it, too. Isn’t that wonderful?
I am always taking my Spiritual "vitals:"
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - I John 1:5-10
Sometimes no matter how much proof there is right in front of people they just won't see it. The OJ Simpson jury is a perfect example of how people can ignore the truth because of underlying agendas.
All the evidence has been laid out from fulfillment of prophesy, witness statements, changed lives of Apostles and believers. I believe you are saying these things don't constitute proof because you enjoy debating.
Yes.. it is.. Thats one difference between Jesus' gospel and synthetic religion.. It has class...
Betty-boop, doubting someooene who pretends to be the mouthpiece of God is not judgment. Get the issue straight.
An Eastern Orthodox, an American Baptist (or a member of any other reformed confession), and a Roman Catholic are to my way of thinking and believing all members of the One Body of Christ
Spoken like a true Catholic, hey?
K:Last time I checked the Reformed did ther best to destroy Anabaptists.
Thank you for agreeing! It's rare. :-)
I wasn't pointing just at you guys. I would hope we recognize how wrong it was for any dominant Christian Church to persecute other Christians. We should evangelize and attempt to show where they have gotten off track.
If I am correctly understanding the ecumenical statements of the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI, formerly Perfect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, and also his blessed predecessor, Pope John Paul II), then I think what I have spoken is "Catholic" in the truest sense of that word.
And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot. - Deuteronomy 29:2-5
Yet when Abraham took Isaac to be sacrificed he didn't actually kill him, but his faith was credited to him as righteousness.
I'm not sure how much they keep up with the writings of the Catholic Church or their dealings with Catholics on and off the forum.
But as far as I have kept up with the writings of the Catholic Church and knowing you as I do and the half of my family who are Catholic, I am convinced that what you have said is "Catholic" in the truest sense of the word.
The Septuagint says "It is a great thing for you to be called My servant, to establish the tribes of Jacob, and to recover the dispersion of Israel; behold, I have given you for the covenant of a race, for a light of the Gentiles, that you should be for salvation to the end of the earth."
The Gentiles are merely to receive the knowledge of the God of Abraham. It doesn't say anything about their salvation. The whole verse is about Israel the Jewish race.
The prophesy is in line with the concept of a Jewish messiah. The world will learn of the God of Abraham through him, because he will establish the rule of God over the entire earth. Through him the Jews will be saved "to the end of the earth."
Luke was probably Greek writing to Greeks using the Greek form of historical research and forms
He believed in Sheol (Luke 16), not in heaven, even though hie wrote his Gospel after the Resurrection. He believes that the righteous are carried by the angels into the bosom of Abraham. And the rich man is begging Abraham to reduce his torment. If he was Greek, he was probably a Greek-speaking Jew, or otherwise accepted what Paul told him as fact.
The only certainty we have is that we continue to sin.
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