Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Smiling is better than
. . . a lot of other options . . .
. . . . . . such as
having a jaw lasered out by ET cattle mutilators!
These have been the parameters for a long time.
Are you sure you’re not Rip Van Winkle?
Mr. Randall seems to miss the point here. I kept expecting him to search inwardly about idolatry, but he continues to point fingers instead.
The ten commandments are not about how others should live their lives, but are about how I am to live. They are not rules for them, but rules for us. Any question that directs the problem of not following the ten commandments to others and not ourselves misses the point entirely.
Perhaps a definition of just what idolatry is would help.
Look at the fifth chapter of Matthew.
28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
So just what is the 'intent' of the commandment forbidding idol worship?
God wants us to worship him and nothing else. The American Heritage Dictionary defines worship as "the reverent love and allegiance accorded a deity, idol, or sacred object." The Greek words for worship combine the ideas of "falling down before," "paying homage to," and "serving." From these definitions it is obvious that worship involves recognition of worth in God, and the offering of our honor, praise, and adoration to the One who is altogether worthy.
So following Jesus' example of expounding on the commandments it is reasonable to define 'idol worship' as anything that we put above God or between ourselves and God that prevents (or inhibits) our reverent love and total allegiance to Him.
An idol is anything that comes between ourselves and God. Both inanimate objects and abstract pursuits (money, pleasure, sports, relationships, even religion) can come between us and God and become forms of idolatry. Religion you say? Yes, The pharisees became so consumed with how well they followed God’s commands that they forgot to have a relationship with God. They were prideful about how well they obeyed the law and in doing so, forgot the intent of the law.
We need to examine ourselves regularly to see if there is anything that we wouldn’t be willing to give up if God asked. If it is more important to us than God, then it is an idol in our lives. It may not be wrong in itself. It’s wrong because it’s taken priority above God.
Many see statues, icons, crucifixes, crosses, relics, etc. as idols, but they are not idols. It is what we make of them in our own hearts that determines if they are idols. Because we lack the ability to judge what is in another person's heart, it is impossible for us to tell just what is and what isn't a idol in their lives.
but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mr. Randall need look no further than this verse for the answer in how to deal with idolatry in the world today. We are to first practice His commandments and secondly teach. If we do not approach this introspectively first, then all of our teaching is for nothing. If we are not an example of our own teachings, then we are nothing, but hypocrites.
We must repent of our sin and turn ourselves over to Christ, removing our own idols. Only then is the pathway to Christ cleared where we can enter into eternal fellowship with our living Savior and be the salt and the light for others to follow.
Very good and important points well stated, imho.
Thx.
“DEAL WITH IT.”
“I only wish you could see me smile ;o)”
Better watch out. Those inside the flying silver flibbers are a constant concern.
Best get that tinfoil helmet ready.
Hmmmm
Small vs Large
seem to be quite relative constructs . . .
So . . . are we dealing with small ideas . . . or small chambers to hold them?
Some folks may need several layers.
You mean anyone would have the freedom to call the Pope Satanic spawn, for instance? That’s the “parameters” of the RF????
And, yes, I’m RVW. I’ve been lurking, then posting mostly off then on since ‘98. Last time I was lurking in the RF a few years ago, I watched several Calvinists get booted (along with a Catholic friend or two), one for calling Catholic doctrine “silly.”
Dr. E. has posted an excerpt from the Westminster Confession several times that call the Pope the antichrist.
The OPC (to which she claims that she belongs) uses the revised version in which that has been removed, oddly enough.
As I said in post 165: “So it’s an active trust - not merely mental assent. As you sit in a chair, you put your trust in it as you plop down. That’s a fairly good metaphor for the kind of trust “believe” carries with it. If one’s belief does not affect one’s behavior, it merely assent and not a true belief.” This is what James’ letter is talking about. Works do not and can not save one - Christ is the only One who was without sin and, therefore, eligible to save anyone (For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous). Our (Christian’s) works are the result of believing in Him and trusting in Him - similar to trusting in the chair to hold us up as we plop down on it. One might say he trusts the chair, but if never sits on it, he has only words.
Taking up the cross - die to self, mortify the deeds of the flesh, etc. - ARE the actions that one who has been saved by the Lord Jesus would take.
Faith precedes good works and is needful or else the works would be rubbish.
You mistakenly think that sola fide is of the devil. “faith plus works” for new birth is of the devil. Faith plus works for the sanctification of the Saint is of God. To be born again, as the Lord put it, is completely the work of God - as your physical birth was none of your work, neither is one’s spiritual birth. A spiritually dead man (Ephesians chapter 2) can do NOTHING of spiritual worth. God must take the initiative (Romans 3:9-18), He choses who will be saved (Ephesians 1:3-8), and He finished the work (Heb 10:1-14).
Romans 3:
“21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
You are entitled to your perception. That’s all it is.
Shucks - if you read the entire post by Randall you would see that he is distressed by what he sees in his own life and in the church he pastors. However, Christians are never told to accept false teaching or heresy, but to examine it and hold on to what is True.
What Randall saw in Mexico City was not, as reported by an RCC guard dog, made up. This type of idolatry gets reported on TC several times a year as people worship the dead (Mexico’s “Day of the Dead”) and very imagined apparition of Mary possible.
One would have to be delusional to deny that such things take place. To the degree that the people doing such are affiliated with the RCC, the RCC ought to discipline them rather than defend them.
The open threads are moderated like a town square. All posters should expect their cherished beliefs to be challenged, even ridiculed on open threads.
Closed threads - caucuses, devotionals and prayer threads - are moderated as if they are happening behind the closed doors of a church. Challenges are not allowed at all.
Posters who are easily offended should stay off the open threads and instead, post to the closed threads.
The open threads should NOT be seen as a "free-for-all" except as it concerns the issues. Assertions and sources which I deem as "hate mongering" are disallowed. Trouble-makers will suffer at the hands of any and all moderators.
Sources which include references to Jack Chick, KKK, Aryan Nations, Christian Identity, National Alliance, VDare, Jesus-is-Lord.com and the like are not allowed. Manufactured hate-mongering documents are disallowed, e.g. the Oath of the Knights of Columbus aka Jesuit Oath.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
"Making it personal" includes attributing motives and reading minds of other posters.
It is not "making it personal" to make such claims of non-Freepers. Calling a belief system or a religious authority "heretic" or "demonic" is not making it personal.
When in doubt, carefully review the post to make sure it is speaking academically or arms-length. There should be few if any personal pronouns.
Be careful not to cross the line into "hate mongering" -because if I see claims that might as well have been written by Jack Chick et al, there will be consequences.
You have freepmail.
PD sufferers get more symptomatic the closer one gets to the pathological core. They may put up a temporary front of apparent rationality, but it cracks fairly quickly under pressure.
There are two sets of rules: One governs them and their behavior, the other governs everyone else. For example: If they use insult to wrench a thread out of its course, that’s perfectly all right. But let somebody divert one of THEIR threads and out comes “hijacking”. To them this seems consistent. If others use their precedent, it’s an outrage to them.
It’s unremarkably symptomatic and fits the criteria.
Also, memories and facts are pliable. If pressed, they tend to find some excuse for misremembering and then say that even if what they say is wrong, it’s right in a deeper and more important sense. They think or feel have an inner contact with the truth which and make irrelevant things like facts or reason.
And the expression of their truth simply cannot be accomplished without causing pain to others. The rationalizations and explanations for inflicting pain will shift. But the inflicting of pain will persist. Cursory study of PDs will explain that the purpose of the pain is to get attention. Bad feedback and stimulus beats no feedback or stimulus.
Of course this applies to no one in particular. Heaven forfend. And in all seriousness, I became acquainted with all these behaviors and the needs they serve long before I joined FR.
Thanks for the continued research. Pass on the request for papers, please.
The old RM and maybe some before him . . . seemed to be
. . . easily mainpulated by the RC edifice in favor of their sensibilities . . . hyper sensibilities, I might say.
Anyone or anything that seemed to indicate that they were less than perfect could be construed as grounds for getting booted, it seemed. They had developed wailing, whining and running to mamma Mary evidently to an art form.
Thankfully, things are much more fair; much more reasonable; much more balanced and effective toward discourse that is
NOT PERSONALLY ASSAULTIVE.
Ideas, issues, folks not part of FR etc. are all reasonably fair game.
I’ve been slapped down sometimes hard or merely counseled advisedly before posting to avoid jangling RC sensitivities unnecessarily tweakily. But those times have been rare. There are phrases which I’m not allowed to use . . . even though they technically fall within the parameters of not being personally assaultive . . .
because the phrases would leave so many RCs in such orbital outrage for so long. . . . at least that’s my impression of such.
And there’s sometimes some ebbing and flowing of levels of sensitivity and decorum expected.
And a Maryolatry thread just got locked because of “childishness.” I assume on both sides but perhaps more lopsided than I think.
All in all things are greatly better than under the old RM. Greatly better. Much more reasonable, fair, balanced and focused on limiting personal attacks vs sensibilities about ideas, beliefs and other stuff ‘out there.’
I think the other old constantly moving boundaries were fraught with unfairness and could only be so given their nature.
Welcome back. I think. LOL.
They all seem to be loaded when we are trying to point out the others error.
The next best Church after the Catholic is the Orthodox IMO, so, even if one could demonstrate that "[at some point] the adoration of Mary changed into her taking on some of the role Jesus told us was His", then such an opponent wouldn't gain much (in terms of making me leave an apostolic Church).
It's interesting because your two churches share a historic lineage, but the EO are nowhere near as expansive in their adoration of Mary.
I'm in and out so I'm not sure how quickly I can respond.
***Is that what keeps the RCC from preaching the Gospel? When several RC posters were asked to define the Gospel, they couldn’t do it.***
When asked, I defined it very well. It was the Calvinists who produced their impoverished and woefully inadequate two word answer - Christ died.
I’ve noticed that you have lied about this a couple of times since it occurred. Why?
You know, Missler is a nice guy and all, but do you really trust him that much?
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