Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Indeed.. according to John 10 the ones remaining in the sheep pens are not following his voice.. which is the poinr being discussed here, I think..
The fact that there are sheep pens would make quite a sermon or homily.. Could be Jesus talked of sheep pens because there were and would be sheep pens.. What a revelation John 10 is.. if one has the ears to hear it..
If they be sheep pens no doubt there be goat pens because there be many other pens for God seekers to self-sort into.. i.e. Buddism, Hinduism, Atheism.. etc.. What some call religion can be called "pens".. because they be many.. with shepards or goat herders for them all..
But, as you say, then we get a Democrat who will cut the funds and personnel needed, catering to special interest groups, and the wall will be as good as nothing.
Unfortunately, Sen. McCain's record is not very good when it comes to illegal immigration. He has sided with Democrats on that issue. But then seeing Guliani (who actually helped get a mafioso appointed to serve as Homeland Security chief for a couple of months before his shady past was made public), I am not very encouraged by the people McCain is surrounding himself with.
Here is the scoop: cut down the demand, and the supply will dwindle. In order to cut down the demands the unethical businesses that hire illegals must be punished by existing laws.
For that to happen, the president can exert pressure on local governments to enforce the law of face consequences. Immigration is a federal matter and those who break the immigration law, either by hiring or abetting those who hire illegal aliens, are subject to federal prosecution.
It would take a very resolute and moral person in charge to have the "mf" to do that. i can see Mike Huckabee being that person, but not McCain. Unfortunately, we don't have one such frontrunner who could or would do that.
Thus our soldiers are dying in Iraq to keep the enemy at a distance, and our governments are doing nothing to prevent the insurgents from creating a Trojan Horse in the heart of America!
Never mind, in addition, risking potential epidemic outbreaks since the illegals are not checked for communicable diseases when they enter the country and could be caryring anything from the plague to the Ebola virus.
We are also sending a mixed, and hypocritical, if not schizophrenic message to the world, on the one hand on the other we are the first to break our own laws for dubious reasons, endangering our own national security and health in addition to that.
If the supply dried out because the demand disappeared, the remaining illegals could be handled by existing institutions without enlarging any of them. In fact, all that would be left, save for a few die hards, would be drug traffickers and terrorists.
We could go after them with impunity, but who is going to find them in a sea of 13 million current (estimated) illegeal aliens today? That's the population of some medium-sized European countries!
We created illegal immigtation and we refuse to fix it. Both the legislative and executive branches of the government carry a bi-partisan responsibility for this failure.
It's time to hold someone accountable! When politicians become liable for their mistakes, like every other citizen, perhaps we will have responsible (better) politicians. Imagine that!
Just think, if I park on the sidewalk because I can't find parking, and the cops don't give me a ticket or haul my car away (along with a monetary penalty that goes along), people would be parking all over sidewalks! Pretty soon we oculdn't alk on them.
If cops stopped pulling over people for speeding or drunk driving, going to work would be like a shooting gallery. If doctors couldn't be sued for their mistakes, what would be the incentive to practice ethically? If business are allowed to break federal laws, what is purpose of having laws that are not enforced?
At this point we can't afford to abrogate our responsibilities, ignore the laws that protect us, and give unethical businesses free reign. It is as good as handing terrorists an open invitation! Wake up America!
For some reason, every time I make a slight correction in the HTML window it tends to erase letters and even whole sentences. I am switching to a standalone HTML editor.
I too would love to see the metaphors of John 10:1-18 addressed in a sermon or homily.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
And I agree with you that the pens are assemblies of sheep which could include more than two pens for two folds. In other words, the doctrines and traditions of men have the affect of sheep-built "walls" separating the sheep from one another.
And although the passage doesn't speak of goats, it would be a logical extension that goats probably assemble together in pens of their own making - or else mingle amidst the sheep, trying to imitate them.
But the goats are not Christ's sheep and, in the end, He sorts them out.
You should remember that the people who officially stated the word of God was pure was the Church. Surely you don't disagree with them?
Ann Coutier made the comment on Bill O'Reilly that we could solve the illegal immigration problem tomorrow, cheaply and efficiently, if we simply gave illegals the right to sue their employers for not paying them minimum wages and benefits.
Smart woman that Ann.
Yes indeed, AG. Thank you for posting that. :)
Tha's one thing she is not, HD.
S:Do you honestly believe that the Holy Spirit would want people to be divided into thousands of different splinter groups of protestant denominations with various beliefs opposite with each other all claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit?
Is it that RC's have more faith in their assembly and it's ability to dominate all other believers than the power of God to unite all believers by the Holy Spirit?
Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Anyone with the indwelling Holy Spirit is my brother in Christ. That is a unity created by God Alone.
The history is very clear how man made unity worked. During the period that the Roman church had the power of the state behind it, any Christian church that was not willing to submit to Roman domination once the independent Christian Church grew large enough it was considered a threat and the Roman church would attempt to destroy it. It is especially note worthy that no matter how hard the Roman church tried it was never successful in destroying all these various Christian Churches. In the end reformers from within the Roman church recognized the serious errors and when they attempted reform they were dealt with in the same way. The blessing of which was the Reformation.
The Reformation led to the Scriptures being spread far and wide and THE GOSPEL being preached to all. My religious ancestors did not come from the Roman church, but those that did are my brothers in Christ and the unity we have is unbreakable.
The Church never stated that. The Church to this day does not state that, because it is all too well aware that too many fingers were involved in shaping the various bibles we have today.
The Church does teach and believe that God's full revelation (in Christ) is perfect, and its inerrant interpretation is maintained in the life and teachings of the Church, and not in the bible (the book) by itself, which has been corrupted throughout ages and subjected to outside influences.
So, the correct interpretation of God's revelation, as understood and taught by the Apostles, is maintained in the life of the Church, which doesn't change, despite errors introduced into the Bible by various individual authors, translators, editors, etc.
Our Divine Liturgy has not changed in at least 1,700 years, so we at least know that how we worship is how the Church knew the faith at the time when the Church canonized the Christian Bible. If the Bible is a reflection of that mindset, then our mindset is a reflection of the correct understanding that canonized it.
In other words, whatever the mindset of the Church was 1700 years ago, when the Bible was canonized, is what we believe and practice.
But if you want the official Orthodox teaching on the (in)errancy of the Bible itself, here it is:
In this sense, we can understand possible imperfections in the books of the Bible, since they are the result of the cooperation between the all-perfect and perfecting Divine Author, the Spirit, and the imperfect human author." [The Dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church]
Please don't move on to more fertile grounds to quickly. I have had wonderful discussions open up with my teenage sons and their friends after I've had them read some of these threads. I've had the opportunity to buy Bibles for some of those friends and to take them to church with us. IOW, you never know who the lurkers are and who is hearing THE GOSPEL for the first time.
My experience with the youth today is that the easiest way to reach them and get them to think about something is through the internet.
Also, the more complicated it becomes the less inclined people are to try and understand. Then individuals are more willing to just trust whatever those in "authority" tell them.
A great explanation for why I bother . . .
and for why I feel compelled to CONTINUE to just be me . . .
Many folks think that I do things for psychodynamic attention getting reasons.
They fail to realize that just being me has ALWAYS gotten much more attention than I often cared to bother with . . . that I’ve often wondered how I could go around with a bag over my head . . . but that too would just attract attention! LOL.
It has always boiled down to . . . God insisting that I quit fussing about the issue and get on down the road with the business at hand.
Thankfully, I’ve seen enough fruit of the sort you describe to encourage me along the way.
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