Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Wonderful!
2Tim.1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
It's all from God.
All we have to do is believe. The indwelling Holy Spirit will guide us to where God wants us. It is not fear of being thrown into hell that guides us. It is the love of our Father in heaven and our Saviour His Son. Works reveal the completed act and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
James 2:20 But do you know, O foolish man , that faith without works is dead?
One of the most misunderstood verses. The works only reveal what is already there. The works did not put the Holy Spirit in the believer. The thief on the cross did not have the opportunity to do any works, but he was saved.
I am confident that all of the elect on these threads could point out how they've changed over the years. How the desire to do bad things has diminished and the desire to please God has become more and more important.
I don't know. Das Kapital is a product of the 19th century industrial capitalism and abominable work conditions that neither you nor I would find acceptable.
More importantly, there are many kinds of capitalism; ours being only one of many. Capitalism is still subject to societal norms and limits. You can's say that anything other than our capitalism is socialism. Besides, trying to stay on the subject, not everything capitalism does is necessarily good for the country. Capitalist idolatry is just another form of idolatry.
I digress for a moment to relate a humorous capitalist moment of the 16th century
Wouldn't be the first time. Is this something factual? Got a link to that?
It's free
As they say, that which is free is worth nothing. :)
...even though I, a good capitalist, had to invest my time and effort in something for which I will not receive "maximum individual economic profit"
Then you are not a good capitalis! You wasted your time trying to convince me that I am wrong and your pay is the same. What were you thinking?
K:You had moved to another planet during the Kosovo war, right UC?
I think UC is right. There may have been a lot of anger about what was going on, but I sure don't remember any of it here. All that was reported was how bad the Serbs were. You may be missing the point that what was a huge outcry within the EO community never was heard by the rest of the world.
Where was the RCC in this whole mess. They have a big voice in the media. RC's are a sizable portion of the population.
The Beatitudes tell us that suffering for righteousness sake is a circumstance, and that it earns you the kingdom of heaven. And those who make peace are doing works that make them acceptable to God. And being merciful is work that earns you mercy from God. Where in all this is faith? The Beatitudes are perfectly "Jewish," works-based salvation. Every one of them is a mitzvah.
As I said, next time you see a homeless person, congratulate him. For, his is the kingdom of heaven more likely than ours, according to St. Matthew.
That being said what about this? Did God purpose to send Israel and Joseph into slavery?
There is no evidence of any Jews having left Palestine at that time, let alone any Exodus from Egypt. But, if we assume that God sent Isaac and Jacob to Egypt, then you could say God sent them into slavery.
The problem is that in the Reformed theology God is the cause and source of evil, and evil ceases to be evil because it becomes a tool of God. Sorry, that's not Christianity.
Whatever it is, it teaches that the world is not fallen because of man, but because God wants it as such. And Judas was was the 'lucky' fall guy, because he made Jesus' sacrifice possible...God predestined Judas to hell before he was even born so that Christ may be crucified!
Stfassisi, you are right. Every time I see Calvin and the gang, I see the devil peering from behind them.
We don't always disagree! ;-0
But power brokers may not be as sentimental as an average Evangelical.
I would have said right minded rather than sentimental, but again we agree.
Bottom line is: whether it's Orthodox Greece, or Orthodox Serbia, or even Orthodox Russia, we are more prone to see them as adversaries of the Protestant west than as fellow Christians and often choose their adversaries as our friends and allies.
I don't agree. I think the majority of Born Again Christians don't really think about them other than as a fringe group of Christianity. The EOC is similar to Judaism in that it has been very insular (I don't mean in beliefs). The EOC is not very well known to most Christians not because they would not be interested, but rather because it has not done much to make itself open to them. I suspect that part of this is because the more open the EOC becomes to us Bible thumpers the more we would witness to your members.
The Church condemned war across the board. The Church does not take political stands. Only moral stands.
“You may be missing the point that what was a huge outcry within the EO community never was heard by the rest of the world.”
I didn’t get the impression that UC was asserting that the Orthodox world was screaming bloody murder about Kosovo (which it was, everywhere including here in America) but Americans didn’t know about it because of the American media. Personally, I still think nobody cared no more than the conservatives who still support Bush and the Republicans who are voting for McCain when both of them are public, loud supporters of drug running, sex slave trading Mohammedan jihadis, care. America, under Republican leadership, has forfeited any claim to be the protector of the Christians. You know what that means, WF. It falls to Russia and mark my words, the entire Orthodox and Latin Catholic world will be behind that. I’ll bet even conservative liturgical Protestants, Lutherans for example, will be supportive of that role for Russia.
You're right -- what was I thinking??? They certainly weren't maximum profit thoughts!!!
I don't have a link. But if I give you my source, then I am being an even worse capitalist!!! Oh well. It was in Forever Settled by Dr Jack Moorman.
IIRC,
I screamed about the whole Yugoslave mess etc wherever I made any comments about such things . . . including hereon. I thought Klintoon was up to globalist evils there from the gitgo.
I was outraged about the Muslims getting away with torture and murder on a ‘grand’ scale with western assistance.
I was outraged at Ron Brown’s murder there and considered it murder immediately.
I suspect few on this thread doubt my ‘screaming’ capacities.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
And, at times, my hearing has been the greatest miracle round these parts.
FWIW, God does give us proof of his existence in nature.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen...
As our scientific knowledge has increased the evidence of God's existence is more and more clear.
Christ did not dignify demands for signs, nor will I dignify demands for signs.
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:5-7
Moreover, of all the signs, the vital one all Christians receive is being reborn in the Spirit.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things? John 3:5-12
But you have excluded that sign on that very principle - i.e. that it is an experience, a symptom, not outwardly visible to you as the observer or measure of God.
But, man is not the measure of God.
The anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand the same thing you demand Gods copyright notice, a bag of M&Ms. Or as you once demanded Gods caller ID.
Ironically, all these demands will indeed one day be met but it will not be pleasant nor in time for man to be the measure of God and thus save himself. (emphasis mine)
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isaiah 45:20-25
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8
That's good. :)
I think the majority of Born Again Christians don't really think about them other than as a fringe group of Christianity
Of course. Being only 1% in America is pretty much a "fringe group." Now the Jews happen to be 2% and that makes all the difference! :)
EOC is similar to Judaism in that it has been very insular (I don't mean in beliefs).
I agree. Most of the missionary work is done by evangelical converts (Orthodox Church of America) who still operate on their Protestant mindset.
Orthodoxy was shut out of the western consciousness for so long because of political realities of the world (Russian isolation and Ottoman Empire) and has contributed very little in the history of the western world and as such remains a virtual unknown.
Moreover, its whole mindset is alien to the west. Being Orthodox in America (a largely Protestant country) is not exactly easy, not because the people are intolerant, but simply because Orthodoxy is "odd" to most Americans.
The EOC is not very well known to most Christians not because they would not be interested, but rather because it has not done much to make itself open to them
That's pretty much it, except that Orthodoxy is open to everyone; however, it is not open to fads. We worship in the same way as those before us.
I suspect that part of this is because the more open the EOC becomes to us Bible thumpers the more we would witness to your members.
The faith is not to be found in the bible. Last time I checked, the books are called "according to...[a human being]." Orthodoxy is a way of life of imitating Christ, according to the Gospels. It's structured around the liturgy. It is closer to Judaism then to anything Protestant.
Oh, baloney! Mark 16:17-18 quotes Christ as promising signs as evidence of the believers. You are cherry picking because what St. Mark says doesn't fit. Are you saying what St. Mark is saying is a lie? Actually, that part of his Gospel does not appear in older manuscripts; are you going to admit that this was a forgery then?
And that proves what? Your testimony is just that. Your word.
I thought all of scripture is equally important because all of ti is the word of God. Who says what is vital and what isn't? I am asking you again, is St. Mark's quote of Jesus promising signs as evidence of the believers a lie or not?
God the Father has revealed Himself in four ways: 1) through the Person of Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, 2) through the indwelling Spirit, 3) through Scripture and 4) through Creation, both spiritual and physical.
But science will not recognize this because under "methodological naturalism" it excludes God on principle. This means it accepts that science cannot "measure" God and thus cannot say whether or not He exists; and then proceeds with the assumption that nature is knowable and predictable and therefore, whatever the explanation for a thing is, it will be natural, or material, or physical.
Likewise the "historical critical method" of reading Scripture excludes the power of God on principle.
But here I am addressing specific demands for proof of God. God does not honor such demands, e.g. the demand of the atheist on the forum that if God would give her a bag of M&M's she'd believe He exists.
Man is not measure of God.
You are dancing around the hot milk, cherry-picking verses as if that is going to invalidate what it says in Mark 16:17-18, which is as clear as it can be that Christ promises visible sings of the believers as part of the great commission.
But you have excluded that sign on that very principle - i.e. that it is an experience, a symptom, not outwardly visible to you as the observer or measure of God. I have not exlcudeed anything. I am asking you if you have the visible signs Christ promised will be evident in believers?
The anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand the same thing you demand Gods copyright notice, a bag of M&Ms. Or as you once demanded Gods caller ID.
So, now you are callinhg me anti-Christ because you can't prove ythat your testiromony is anything but a feleing and the fact that you can reconcile Mark 16:17-18 with being a believer?
Who died and left you to judge?
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