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There is a phrase in Mormonism 'as far as it is translated correctly' which LDS will occasionally admit to in their beliefs regarding the King James Bible. Having spent time reading the Joseph Smith so called 'translation' of the King James Bible (written in King James english, btw), I am amused that his fabrications from whole cloth are considered a 'better translation' ... he neither read nor comprehended Greek, Aramaic, or Hebrew so his 'translation' into King James English is pure fantasy and THAT is what is referred to stealthily as 'a better translation' by the deceivers pushing Mormonism and denigrating the Bible as not trustworthy 'because it is not translated correctly'.

I guess, that would coincide with people occasionally posting on FR and admitting that they are a conservative.

Mormons are many things, but Shy about Joseph smith and his writings is not one of them. If a prophet is a prophet of God then who better to say what God meant in scripture? Moses wrote th first five books of the the Bible (that's why they are called the books of Moses) even though the Hebrews had books like the Book of Enoch, do you make fun of those?

Are all prophets "learned men"? Should they be?

The easiest way to know if Joseph is a prophet of God is to Put our religion to "The Test" as I describe on my page on FR:
Get a Book of Mormon and Get a bible, read both, pray about Both, see if God answers prayers about both.

Any honest dissenter of the church will tell you that God will tell you the Bible is true and the BOM is not, so they should be encouraging this test right along side us. Mormons would have to be nuts to offer free copies of the Book of Mormon, and the Bible (which contains the JST as foot notes) so people could compare them, if we are lying, we are digging a hole we cannot extricate ourselves from, if we are telling the truth then our detractors will do, and say anything to keep people from reading because they just might learn the truth and they would then know for themselves those telling them not to read have, well, a casual relationship with the truth.

If you would like links to the Smith 'translation' of the king James Bible, or a computer copy to peruse, let me know. I can also post the additions he made to Genesis 50 in order to fabricate a retroactive prophecy of his 'coming in these latter days' if you're interested in such deceit by Mormonism.

LOL, it's hardly a secret, it's on the LDS church's web site, here's a link: The Joseph smith translation of the King James Version Now this is just the pieces to big to fit in a footnote, most of the changes are small like Pharaoh hardening his hart instead of the lord hardening Pharaoh's heart, stuff like that.

Here's one of Joe's 'little changes'. See if it makes any difference in the 50th chapter of Genesis ending.

JOSEPH SMITH ~~TRANSLATION~~ Fabrications … (to the King James Bible!) From LDS source http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jst/10 ; Note, Smith's fabricated portions are italicized; Smith started with KJV text and added for his purposes, to fabricate prophesies of himself and his works of Mormonism ‘scriptures‘.

GENESIS 50: 24-38
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo;) and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.

25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.

26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.

27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.

29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him who I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.

30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;

31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.

33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.

34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.

35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.

36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.

37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.

38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.

Actually after two nice Mormon young men came to my house years ago and left me the BOM, I read it, asked God to tell me if the thing was true, and the answer I got was an emphatic NO.

I began to search the scriptures diligently to see if the thing was true, and after 35 years I can find nothing to support it, but some things instead that warn against believing "another gospel".

For me, the most damning thing about the BOM other than its obvious errors already pointed out in this thread, is that there is no theology in the book, which if it did have new information, would be there. It just doesn't ring true. Perhaps to people who have no understanding of the scriptures to begin with it means something I don't know.

The challenge when trying to discuss or debate with you all is that you have a parallel universe so to speak. When you say"Jesus" or "God" etc. you mean a whole different idea of Jesus or God as revealed to man in the Old and New Testaments.

Even so, I would think that the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5 should apply. Even so, unless you openly condemn all the social ills, child abuse, slavery, etc. winked at by your group as a whole, then all the plagues promised will come upon you and destroy you.

The other test of a true religion is that it embraces its intellectuals, it doesn't purge them from the church. A religion should be able to stand up to any questioning whatsoever, all of its doctrines brought into the light and examined. Also its religious texts need to remain unchanged, not subject to whims and new revelations brought on by feelings, leanings, intimations.