You, 7, responded with: Oh really? Then please explain why we teach thus (and proceeded to cite Mosiah 16:10-13 & 3 Nephi 26:4-5).
Then your conclusion was: So either you are not aware of our teachings and misspoke, or intentionally misled with that post. I would like to think it is the former...
I find this absolutely humorous on numerous veins!!!
(1) First, you might want to inform DelphiUser that there's quite a few parallel passages between the Gospels and the BoM; it seemed to be under the impression that wasn't the case.
(2) I found it ironic that you cite 3 Nephi! Somehow, you've come to the false understanding that what is revealed in the BoM = automatic "teachings" by LDS General Authorities. (I'm sorry to break the news to you...I could go on & on about how that's not the case. But suffice it for now, allow me to point out a few examples...using 3 Nephi, of course).
Please review this passage from 3 Nephi 19 and then tell me what OBVIOUS "revelation" here has YET to be imported into LDS "teachings" (Here, I'll make it VERY EASY for you by highlighting what I mean):
"...he..commanded them that they should kneel down...that his disciples should kneel down upon the earth....he commanded his disciples that they should pray. And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray UNTO Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God...Father...they believe in me...and they pray UNTO ME...he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray UNTO HIM...And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray UNTO HIM; and his countenance did smile upon them, and the light of his countenance did shine upon them...And Jesus said unto them: Pray on; nevertheless they did not cease to pray...And when Jesus had spoken these words he came again unto his disciples; and behold they did pray steadfastly, without ceasing, UNTO HIM; and he did smile upon them again; and behold they were white, even as Jesus." (3 Nephi 19:16-18,22,24-26, 30)
For those reading this who don't yet understand the implications of the above...well LDS general authorities teach that you don't pray directly to Jesus...You pray directly to Heavenly Father (in Jesus' name). So the LDS Jesus is only an LDS conduit, NOT a recipient of DIRECT prayer.
So the big irony hear is that 7bak jumps all over my case for saying that LDS gloss over John 5:29 (and probably they gloss over 3 Nephi 26:4-5 equally as much!!!) just because this same concept is found in 3 Nephi 26. But direct prayer to Jesus is found in 3 Nephi 19...but that, too, is glossed over by LDS!!!
[I think I could teach an entire class of: Book of Mormon passages glossed right over by Mormons]
(3) Final example (for now): 7bak thinks that just because it's in the BoM it automatically = LDS teachings, and we're all supposed to know that LDS don't gloss over their own teachings. Therefore, according to him, I misspeak--either I'm an intentional misleader or I'm ignorant, and he thinks I'm the latter.
Well, I've copied JoshM99 for a very specific purpose. I want to reference 4 of his phrases from this thread. I want to do so because I want you to see the "evolution" of his theology about directly worshipping Jesus.
In post 199, he says: Further, for the record, the LDS doctrine is that one worships God the Father, through his Son, Jesus Christ, and no one else...
Conclusion? Only direct worship of God the Father and indirect worship of Jesus allowed (like their concept of prayer)
In post 299, he says: LDS doctrine does not teach to worship Jesus Christ...
Conclusion? Nope, NO worship of Jesus Christ!
In post 329, he says: I will only add that in worshiping Christ, it is not in alternative of worshiping His Father. The focus is still on God the Father...
Conclusion? Well, now that if you've pointed out passages about directly worshipping Christ can be found in 3 Nephi (11:17; 17:10; along with 4 Nephi 4:37 & 2 Nephi 25:29), well, OK, I guess we can worship Christ...just so long as it doesn't dilute our worship of the Father, whose the main focus.
In post 361, he says: ...yes, in worshiping God and Jesus, who is God’s son, you can say the LDS worship more than one god...
So, note the "evolution" of beliefs: JoshM has gone from worshipping the Father thru Jesus--and no ONE else...(LDS keep telling us that Jesus is a different ONE than the Father)...(monotheism) to "Yup we worship BOTH gods!" (polytheism)
But, beyond that, to get back to why this goes HERE in my response: JoshM99 is a "perfect" illustration to my point. Apparently, there are indeed many LDS who gloss over passages like 3 Nephi 11:17; 17:10; 4 Nephi 4:37; 2 Nephi 25:29 about directly worshipping Christ. If I point to Heb. 1:6 about directly worshipping Christ, and then say LDS gloss over it, it won't help Sevenbak to cite these above BoM passages and say I misspeak and mislead 'cause I'm ignorant...'cause frankly MANY, MANY LDS are in the dark about DIRECTLY worshipping and praying to Jesus!!!
Sorry for not getting back to you, there are other things that need my attention.
You asked previously if the LDS worship Jesus Christ and I gave you conflicting answers, but corrected myself as hopefully you previously saw. My confusion is that our emphasis is always on the Father and all our actions are to the Father as He has commanded, through His Son. Still, we worship Christ as our Savior, God’s only Begotten and our Eldest Brother.
Now, you cite 3d Nephi 19 about where he is among the Nephites after great calamities and after he has taught them a few things. It is clear that the people are praying to Christ, but at the same time, Christ separates himself from the groups and prays to his Father. One thing you overlooked is that in the previous chapter, 18, Jesus taught them how to pray:
“19 Therefore ye must always pray unto the Father in my name;”
Why are they praying to Christ, their Lord and God after being commanded to pray to God the Father is an interesting question. He doesn’t reprimand them at all at any time so I consider it a non issue. Is it a contradiction? I don’t think so since Christ taught them how to pray and obviously he was pleased with their prayers even if they were to him and not to the Father. AT that same time, HE prayed to HIS Father as he previously commanded them.
Without gloss, I can think of reasons why he didn’t reprimand them, some would be because Christ is resurrected at this point and had completed his earthly mission, taking his place at the right hand of God. Further, they were ever so grateful to have their Savior among them that perhaps being sticklers for what they were just taught wasn’t a high priority at that time. I do know that as Christ taught them to pray to the Father in his name, so is how we are to pray to this day.
I am sure you will take exception with my response or come up with some rebuttal, but it really is a non issue within the LDS Church as it is very clear that Christ taught what prayer is and could well have made a big deal about their prayers as you found had he felt it important.
In post 361, he says: ...yes, in worshiping God and Jesus, who is God’s son, you can say the LDS worship more than one god...
So, note the “evolution” of beliefs: JoshM has gone from worshipping the Father thru Jesus—and no ONE else...(LDS keep telling us that Jesus is a different ONE than the Father)...(monotheism) to “Yup we worship BOTH gods!” (polytheism)
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If we reject the Trinity in favor of a Godhead, comprised of the same members, it becomes a difference of degree and not of kind. We both worship God the Father and His Son, the Christ, but since you morph the two together as the same essence and we claim they are separate beings, you say we are polytheists, which is technically true, but our worship is still the same: We both worship God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
However, for LDS, it is important to understand the true nature of God, which is He has a body. You never once addressed how it is we are made in His image. Since God the Father has a body, and Christ is a resurrected being, with a body, it is difficult to comprehend this essence idea of a trinity.
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:(Emphasis added by me) Anyone who can read John 17, and look at how Jesus Talked with his father, and see the relationship which he compared to the relationship the disciples were to have and thinks that Jesus and God are the same substance, must believe that Jesus is a liar, there was no reason for him to say the things he did here if he and God are the same thing, unless it was to mislead us into believing he and God are not "of the same substance", but are separate entities that are so unified in purpose that they are almost indistinguishable from each other.
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.