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To: JoshM99
For the record, LDS doctrine believes in grace and that without grace none may be saved.'

What you neglect to say is that Kimball (LDS prophet) preached that LDS "pull THEMSELVES UP BY THE BOOTSTRAPS" to become a god. And, that God's grace is considered only as an "afterburner" after LDS have met the conditional requirement. And what is that conditional requirement? "You are saved by grace AFTER ALL you can do." (2 Nephi 25:23, Book of Mormon)

So, God's salvific grace, according to LDS REVELATION, is that it's accessible once a person has been determined to have done ALL they could do...no sins of omission pertaining to spiritual compliance (obeying every commandment); physical compliance (loving God with all strength); emotional compliance; intellectual compliance (loving God with all mind), etc.

It's the "Catch-22" of Mormonism.

Second is did Joseph Smith see God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, in his first vision? Coupled to this is did he translate the Book of Mormon? If he did have his epiphany then most likely what he claims about the Book of Mormon is true.

If you look closely at Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, you'll notice that these "two Personages" are never identified as either God, Jesus Christ, or the Heavenly Father.

...for the record, the LDS doctrine is that one worships God the Father, through his Son, Jesus Christ, and no one else...

Well, for the record, I can't believe you've been raised in Mormonism and don't even know what your own apostles have proclaimed.

Number of gods JoshM says LDS worship: 1 (the Father)

Number of gods LDS general authorities concede they worship: 2 (LDS apostle Bruce R.McConkie, "Mormon Doctrine," p. 848).

And why does McConkie have to conclude this? Well not only do multiple Bible passages show that Jesus is worshipped—like Hebrews 1:6—-but the Book of Mormon confesses this as well in 3 Nephi, which happens to be, BTW, the name 3 Nephi in which Jesus is REPEATEDLY DIRECTLY prayed to even tho LDS leaders now backtrack on that.

McConkie says LDS worship more than one god. The Bible says to worship Jesus. The Book of Mormon says to worship and pray directly to Jesus. All of this is no issue for those who believe that Jesus and the Father are one God. But for those who profess they are two fully distinct gods, time to fess up: LDS are polytheists both philosophically and devotionally.

216 posted on 11/14/2007 11:46:45 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

It doesn’t change the LDS position on grace. The LDS doctrine is very clear that works alone will never bring one to God, but only through grace. Works are still a necessary component, but will never be saving all by themselves.

McConkie would say exactly what I said about worshiping God the Father. BTW, Mormon Doctrine is an interesting compendium of various concepts, but was written by McConkie and not sanctioned by the Presidency. It has errors in it.

Again, it really hinges on faith in the Book of Mormon and in Smiths’ first vision regarding the spiritual credibility of the LDS church. The first vision is significant as that is the foundation for the LDS’s view of God, his Son, and their relationship. God created man in His image. His Son is the savior of all mankind through the atonement and resurrection. God renewed revelation through Joseph Smith and his successors. If not, then it’s a good, if misguided, organization that tries to improve the lives of its members and other participants.


262 posted on 11/14/2007 12:44:42 PM PST by JoshM99
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