Joseph Smith: Creator of the Fourth Abrahamic Faith; Mormonism

Auhtor's website ^ | September 15, 2007 | G. Richard Jansen

[JoshM99]

I will only add that in worshiping Christ, it is not in alternative of worshiping His Father.

So LDS DO worship two gods? What about you?

_______________________________________

If you mean since LDS reject the Trinity of 3 Gods in one. Also called the Certs god, then yes, in worshiping God and Jesus, who is God’s son, you can say the LDS worship more than one god. Yet, since others claim God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one and LDS worship those members of the Trinity, do they not also worship but one god by the definition of others?

Seriously, we are all friends in Christ and seek his will and to do good by Him to others. I worship God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ, our redeemer. The Holy Ghost has witnessed to me that they are real and I cannot deny it.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I'm afraid you are misinformed about Catholic doctrine on baptism, as you can read HERE.

The Catholic Church recognizes almost all Christians' baptism. I (Catholic) married my husband Don-o (Baptist) and the Cath. Diocese looked at the documentation related to Don-o's baptism and said that was just fine.

[Osage Orange]

You are a fine example of a mormon.

Keep posting.....

[Domandred]

But the Bible does clearly say do not add anything to it and claim it to be scripture inspired by God.

Where does it say that? Go ahead and quote it because the quote you will use was written BEFORE many of the other books that are included in the Bible.

[JoshM99]

“The RCC does NOT recognize the Mormon baptism as valid, IIRC.”

Correct; the Catholic Church only recognizes baptism done “in th Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost).” That would include almost all Christian churches, groups, denominations, but not the Mormons.

____________________________________

The LDS Church does not recognize any other baptism, but their own. The baptism is done in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. It is not expected that another religion honor the LDS ordinance of baptism if an LDS member choses to join another religion. It would be reasonable that the newly converted would subject himself to the requirements and ordinances of his new faith.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Anywho, God made us sentient beings (or we helped ourselves to that gift in the garden)"

God made us sentient beings, intelligent and free (that's a large part of what being created "in the image and likeness of God" is all about.)

What happened in the garden --- sin --- was not enlightenment. It was a huge stumble into stupidity, a darkening and weakening of the human intellect and will. It resulted in something like a worsening series of genetic defects, affecting the whole human race in a very unfortunate manner.

[MHGinTN]

“If you mean since LDS reject the Trinity of 3 Gods in one.” Sorry, the Trinity is not three gods in one, it is God as One, a Unity of three manifestations of His essence.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for your explanation; I had not realized before that the Mormons baptize, as you say, "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

The problem, then, would be a serious difference of doctrine on the nature of the Trinity.

[greyfoxx39]

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with this statement: "What I think will help those face the onslaught is the emphasis on service and helping one another. That really does distill true religion. The faith will take care of itself after that. I hope."

Back to the old "faith and works" debate, I guess...anyway, I'm glad to have a conversation with a mormon who can relate to the "vexing" history of the LDS church...that was the crucible that refined my belief also, but in the opposite direction from yours.

[JoshM99]

“If you mean since LDS reject the Trinity of 3 Gods in one.” Sorry, the Trinity is not three gods in one, it is God as One, a Unity of three manifestations of His essence.

______________________

There are three members of the Godhead in LDS doctrine, God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit). The Father and Son have physical bodies while the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. They are one in purpose and mind. They are not viewed as manifestations of one essence.

[sevenbak]

It is becoming obvious that Mormons, if they cannot force their Bishop Romney upon the Republican party nomination, will burn down Christian Conservatism as best they can as ‘our punishment for not tolerating’ their heresies. The Romney candidacy is a frightening example of the childish ‘if I can’t have my way I’ll punish you by holding my breath.’ The implications are, however, disaterous for this nation unless we firmly reject Romney now, before the DNC can exploit the vast differences in Christianity and Mormonism.

Is this a prophecy? I see nothing to support such an assumption. Firstly, Mitt did nothing of the kind as Gov. Why would he do it as Pres. Secondly, it's not the Mormons who daily "burn down Christian Conservatism" here in FR. It's the other way around. What is this thread about anyway? LOL!! I wouldn't expect a thread on Mormonism without your joyful daily presence. As to the dems comparing Mormons and traditional Christianity, they will not succeed. Harry Reid has seen to that. The national hypocrisy of the democrats if they attack Mitt on his religion after supporting the Senate Majority leader the way they have would truly be a sight to behold. Americans won't tolerate that, period.

[what's up]

should have tossed Old testement jews in with Islam and Mormons

Only sex addicts believed in polygamy after Christ.

Joe Smith and Mohammed definitely included in that camp. And Joe Smith as late as the 1800's! Tsk, tsk.

[Domandred]

Correct; the Catholic Church only recognizes baptism done "in th Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost)." That would include almost all Christian churches, groups, denominations, but not the Mormons.

False. LDS baptisms are done "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (D&C 20:73–74)

That is not the reason the Catholic Church doesn't recognize LDS baptisms.

As stated before the Catholic Church doesn't recognize many baptisms (not just LDS) just the same as some denominations (not just LDS) don't recognize Catholic baptisms.

[JoshM99]

I’m sorry, but I just can’t agree with this statement: “What I think will help those face the onslaught is the emphasis on service and helping one another. That really does distill true religion. The faith will take care of itself after that. I hope.”

Back to the old “faith and works” debate, I guess...anyway, I’m glad to have a conversation with a mormon who can relate to the “vexing” history of the LDS church...that was the crucible that refined my belief also, but in the opposite direction from yours.

_____________________________________

I didn’t articulate it in the best way, but yes, it is the faith without works or works without faith concept. If you exercise one, it builds the other according to my belief. ;)

Thanks for the discussion as well. Thank you for mentioning about your own background with the LDS religion.

[broncobilly]

I wonder if rank and file Mormons are at all prepared for what the future holds? There have already been articles written about the reaction to the new light being shone on the religion,

BB: “New light?” Most of this has been around for as long as I can remember, which is about 40 years.

I believe that there are many, many who are not prepared for the questions coming their way.

BB: I see by your postings you are trying to get them ready. Quite noble of you.

There are areas of belief that the average Mormon will not have an inkling of when questions on them come their way.

BB: Actually I think most of them are used to it by now and are experienced at sorting out the lies from the facts.

I believe it will be painful for many.

BB: I think “disgusted” is more like it. Also, the liberals are more disgusted by the religious right, and the "far right Evangelicals" in particular, than they are about the Mormons. I know. I have worked for Democrats and have heard them go off into emotional tirades about the religious right. If the Media play up the Mormon issue, it will probably be because they think they can inflame the religious right and split the party. In that case, it would only work if there are bigots among us. If there weren't, it would cause a backlash against the Democrats.

[Mrs. Don-o]

For over a thousand years before the Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Church had all 72 books of the Bible --- which, incidentally, are found also in the original King James Bible (KJV). However, as the Protestant revolt progressed and things continued to unravel, various Reformation figures took the opportunity to reject 2, or 3, or half-a-dozen books (Martin Luther, for instance, seriously considered throwing out the Epistle of St. James and the Epistle to the Hebrews.)

As you can see HERE, however, the early Christians in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Century AD, and on up til the 16th Century, quoted from books like Sirach and Wisdom which are in the original (Catholic/Orthodox) Bible but were eventually omitted from most Protestant Bibles.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Oops, you're right. I hadn't realized that the LDS baptizes "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." I am sorry. I spoke out of ignorance.

The reason comes down to a significant difference in the way we understand the Trinity. Hence --- as I said before ---the Catholic Church recognizes practically all Christian baptisms, except for Mormon.

[greyfoxx39]

You are welcome to your interpretation, of course.

[Old Mountain man]

Typical non answer to a direct question. Have a wonderful life.

[broncobilly]

You are welcome to your interpretation, of course.

---

Since you were saying the Mormons may not be able to handle the stuff that is going to be thrown at them in the campaign, let me remind you of something. About half of all Mormon males go on two year missions. During that two years they are constantly barraged by this kind of material. Since this 50% of the males is the backbone of any ward (congregation), there will many in every congregation who will be experienced with such materials.

It is not the Mormons who are going to be freaked out by such a barrage. It is some of the religious right or the conservatives who will freaked out if the nominee is a Mormon. They will be embarrassed to be associated with a Mormon. They will half believe what they are hearing and won’t know what to do with the information. Jumping from bashing Mormons to defending one as the nominee will be just too much of a strain.