Posted on 11/14/2007 8:28:07 AM PST by fortcollins
After viewing a few of these threads I have concluded that Mormonism is the most disingenuous religion on the planet.
Sounds kind of like what the prophets of old would have said. I like it. Your comments kind of sound like the Pharisees of old as they spoke to the Lord & subsequently the apostles.
From post #1396 ... you proved it true so quickly! “You and your apologetics for the cult of Smithism will read the above and see nothing of a message, no substance.”
You’re right. It is worse than I thought a religion could be. Self centered, self righteous, self seeking, self serving, boastful, arrogant, proud, haughty, whitewashed tombs in sacred undergarments.
(The frightening thing is the above attributes are not sinful in Mormonism, but missing a meeting, drinking tea, saying a slang word, or getting a tatoo or too many peircings are enough to keep you from the Celestial Kingdom! Disengnuous was perhaps too kind of word.)
When will you ever get it right MHG? The Pharisees said Christ was sowing doubts as to the efficasy of the O.T as well. We believe the Bible to be the word of God. Man’s interpretations are sometimes lacking. If one asks the Lord in prayer for answers, is that asking for a sign?
But listen, I’ve gone way further w/ you than I should. I told you, reasonable discussion, o.k. Sandbox, not o.k. Have a great weekend MHG.
“was Christ’s church ruled by one set of doctrines (set up by Him, I might add) or many variations during His time here & after w/ the apostles?”
Clearly both.
“There were no failures in doctrine while the apostles were here from a church standpoint. But you are correct, man changed that once the apostles were no more.”
The doctrine of the Church was under attack from shortly
after the time of Christ’s Ascension. It continued through
all Church history, which led to the specific statements
of the Church, identifying that heresy. Mormonism is a
manifestation of many of those same heresies.
Everything necessary for eternal life remains right there
in the Bible. No worries mate. When people (like Joseph Smith,
for example) change that, you are correct, that is wrong.
“Did He ever indicate that variations by man were o.k.?”
Only in matters of practice (kinds of music, buildings/
no buildings, etc).
“That’s where your argument falls flat.”
Actually, I’m saying the same thing. People screw up. That
is wrong. Just like Joseph Smith.
“You seem to accept the teachings of man w/o direct input from the Lord.”
Exactly the opposite, FRiend. The Bible IS direct input from
God.
“Would the Lord really be the author of all that confusion?”
Of course not. He is not the author of sin either. Men do
both. Don’t blame God for man’s shortcomings.
“Whenever His church went stray in biblical times, He sent His prophets to set them straight. Why would He go silent now?”
I suggest you do a bit more study of OT history and Church
history. God has often been silent for extended periods of
time.
“There’s more confusion now than in any other time in history.”
Can you prove that, or is it your opinion of our times? It
seems unprovable and an opinion. I would disagree, based on
history. I would nominate the exact Roman/Greek culture that
Christ brought the Gospel into.
“You think we’re here to fend for ourselves.”
Exactly the opposite!
“That notwithstanding, I won’t stoop to denigrate your church.”
I too would never denigrate Christ’s Church.
But, we are talking about mormonism on this thread.
If Paul were here, he would have far, far more severe
words for you, based on how he referred to those who
advocated heresy in his day.
Mormonism is:
A. A cult that mimics Christianity as a forgery
B. A completely separate false religion
C. Both A and B
D. Satan’s best forgery of all time that combines
New Age thought, Polytheism, Polygamy, Christianity,
Masonic ritual, etc.
E. All of the above
Answer Key: Correct answer is E
the truth of God is so powerful - Im blessed by the depth of your faith and knowledge
GENESIS 50: 24-38
According to the LDS, the following is about 'Moses, Aaron, and Joseph Smith were all named in this prophecy of Joseph in Egypt. Also, Joseph prophesied that the Book of Mormon would become a companion to the record of Judah.'
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo;) and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.
25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.
26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.
27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.
28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.
29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him who I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.
30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;
31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.
32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.
33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.
34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.
35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.
36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.
37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.
As anyone can readily see, Joe Smith fabricated a huge addition to this chapter ending in Genesis.
But, but...your whole religion is based in a man.
Not the Son of God...but a MAN!!!
Nobody understands your faith.
The minute anyone gets close to truly understanding it, you deny that that's what you believe.
“After viewing a few of these threads I have concluded that Mormonism is the most disingenuous religion on the planet.”
Because of the emphasis on excommunicating apostates (Blood Atonement in it’s various guises), the only ones who survive in this church are the disingenuous.
“(The frightening thing is the above attributes are not sinful in Mormonism, but missing a meeting, drinking tea, saying a slang word, or getting a tatoo or too many peircings are enough to keep you from the Celestial Kingdom! Disengnuous was perhaps too kind of word.)”
What’s disengenous is that supposedly you’re an ex-member & you would know that statement is a bald faced lie. The question is why would you lie? I really do wonder how much you really know about the church.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
But I can see the contentious nature building here so I will check out & spend the weekend enjoying my family & worshiping the Lord. Have a great weekend all. Even you MHG.
The ones who survive are the ones who do not question the LDS Church either in its doctrine or its own whitewashed history.
I don't think the LDS church is aggressive in excommunicating apostates. You basically have to demand to be excommunicated or somehow become a public embarrassment to the LDS Church before you are removed from their rolls. I haven't been a Mormon in nearly 40 years, but as far as I know I'm still counted on their rolls as a member because I never formally requested removal.
The disingenuousness of the Mormons lies in their refusal to acknowledge the teachings of their past apostles and prophets and their insistence that what is clearly Mormon Doctrine is either not Mormon doctrine or is somehow misunderstood by those who call them on it. It is endemic throughout these threads. Mormon doctrine is exposed and Mormons deny that it is Mormon Doctrine. They claim that their apostles and prophets were either misquoted or misunderstood.
But the truth is that they were neither misquoted nor misunderstood. What they said was and is embarrassing to the LDS Church and its members and rather than face up to the truth, they accuse those who point it out as being liars or just Anti-Mormons.
I don't envy those who attempt to defend the LDS Church on these open forums. The most common tactic they seem to employ when faced with facts is to attack the messenger. Cest la vie.
I is not a lie. It has been my experience that this is indeed the perception of sin within mormonism. All anyone need do to experience it is read these threads, or look at Utah’s culture which is apt to label a coffee drinker a sinner, but look up with admiration to a white-collar scam artist!
Oh BTW, you have broken a rule of FR by calling a fellow freeper (me) a liar. This is the way of Mormonism. Break rules (that they don’t want to apply to themselves) and pretend to be virtuous in their own “good works.” In actuality are mostly geared toward themselves and their own standing within the community of Mormonism and their own trek to becoming a god.
As I said——self centered, self seeking. Mormonism is the sociopathic equivalent to religion.
MANY prayers are with you!!!
But NOT because they started following some newly introduced doctrine, but that by studying the EXISTING writings, finding the Truth was in them!
If you start relying on what the BIBLE says, you, too, will be called "apostate, heretical" by your organization, friends and yes, your family.
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