Joseph Smith: Creator of the Fourth Abrahamic Faith; Mormonism

Auhtor's website ^ | September 15, 2007 | G. Richard Jansen

[DelphiUser]

When someone sees something as personal, isn’t it up to that person to process what you say, and then they determine how they react to it?

Like your constant use of “anti’s”. You don’t see that as a slam, but it most definitely comes across as one. Many “anti’s” would retort in response that they aren’t “anti’s”; they are Christians.

I would have no problem with the "Christians" promoting Christianity, I would applaud there efforts, and Being a Christian, would join in.

Anti's on the other hand spend lots of time trying to refute our stated beliefs, culling our doctrine for "Gotchas" and saying things designed to destroy faith.

The negative Connotation for Anti is well earned by them, and since it is a Group, like Mormons they are as powerless to keep people from denigrating them by Group.

Often on these threads the “saints” complain about being called Mormon and it is their processing of the emotional connotation that makes them claim it is a derogatory term.

I have never complained about Being called a Mormon, it is an honor to be called after John, or Michael, or Mormon, or any great and righteous man. I have complained when the Nagging Nabobs of Negativity attack my religion, and thus me but the RM says it's OK so what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Please note that I have been called many names on this very thread and have not pinged the Mods, I am bigger than that. (OK, so I need to lose weight, don't tell my wife I admitted that.)

When in fact, most Americans only know the term Mormon as in a member of the Mormon church... and they don’t know that you’d prefer to be called a “Latter-Day Saint”.

I don't have a problem with the nick name, however, I would want to to translate it my way in to any foreign languages, thank you.

It appears that you want to have it both ways. You want to determine what is derogatory for you and not let another determine that for themselves.

Actually, I would rather that no one here be allowed to denigrate my church, and would be willing to give up the ability to denegate anti's. The Mods wisely have decided that would be unenforceable, and have taken the position that individual denigration of Freepers is forbidden.

I find this a satisfactory solution since as in all compromise everyone is a little unhappy.

AS for Anti's not liking the truthful fact that they are portrayed as only being opposed, well change the perception by changing behavior. (good luck with that...)

[JRochelle]

Of course; this ONLY works if the REPLY tab was selected and then no OTHER name was written into the TO: box.

I'll never tell if I changed the TO:!

[DelphiUser]

DU

Delphi? Is one of those commandments about regular Church attendence. Cuz ya know, Ya can’t get youse all endowments unless you show up ta church each and every Sunday.

Help help! I'm being repressed! (Monte python)

Nobody said you had to attend every sinday to get into heaven, theres this thing called general conference, ya know...

How’s about abstaining from the sinful substance, regular (not herbal) tea? One of the commandments of God....or is it just a suggestion? Can’t expect the Celestial kingdom iff’n you can’t give up the tea habit, now can y’all.

If you only had one Body, and God gave you an owners manual with suggested maintenance and Fueling requirements, I guess you you'd ignore that, Huh?

[SkyPilot]

Excellent post (#1288).

You hit that one out of the park.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: Those who seek salvation must do so according to God's dictates, and not according to their own understanding.

You Said: Where is it written that God gave Smith -- and effectively discounted Christ's finished work on the cross,

Bzzt Wrong!

You Said: little passwords to pass on to people to get them past the angels etc and get into heaven?

(Uh oh, somebody doesn't know their Bible very well, and surprise, it's not the Mormon!)

Rev. 3:12-13

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 2:17

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Our white plastic temple recommends are the stone, and in the temple you receive your new name. It's Biblical, It's in there twice while Atonement is only in there once.

You Said: Where is it written in the scriptures that Christ said "after me comes another, one greater than I" who will give you the secret passwords, because I don't have them"

Rev 3:21&22

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Joseph is not greater than Jesus, but he was greater than any Anti I have ever met.

The apostles talked about Future prophets, where do you say they are?

Most anti's never study these scriptures for they don't understand them, we on the other hand understand the Bible better than the anti's, because as the Bible says "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" and the Anti's seem to have a tin ear for they have not the Spirit to lead them and interpret the scriptures for them, thus they are left to stumble and Grope after knowledge that they rejected when truth was offered to them.

[DelphiUser]

Actually, Mormons believe that Jesus gave his followers commandments. Then you can produce a LIST of these; right?

Yeah, just like you can list every thing he commanded in the Bible...

OR, I could say it is our web site, go read it, let me know when you are done...

[DelphiUser]

I Said: This rule often results in wars of obfuscation, which can actually be quite fun for the linguistically gifted, whoever they are, the linguistically challenged however are often frustrated to the point of making gaffes and getting banned.

You Said: Don't pick on poor, ol' R$&#^$%# now!

I have no idea who you are talking about, and if you think it is you, you "self selected" into the group.

[DelphiUser]

LOL!

[DelphiUser]

There are Messangers and there are messagers...

I said a message from God...

[1000 silverlings]

a tin ear

We don't have a tin ear.We know that Jesus will give us a new name and has already. We know whose seal is on our forehead, whose blood is between the lintel posts. And it ain't Joey Smith

[FastCoyote]

“culling our doctrine for “Gotchas” and saying things designed to destroy faith.”

I consider it more an attempt to cut out the cancerous part of an otherwise healthy body. Had Joseph Smith never existed, would you be an atheist? I don’t think so, I think you would have been a Christian. So we are by no means trying to destroy faith, only cut out a false faith that we view as cancerous.

Here’s your problem DU, to be a Mormon you must effectively condemn the rest of us to hell. Otherwise, if the Old and New Testament were sufficient, what need would there be for Joseph Smith [except to introduce inconsequential polygamy and baptism of the dead]? In other words, you believe the rest of us are failed Mormons (not failed Christians).

If the Joseph Smith myth collapses, you are left with traditional Christianity, so the only reason you would defend the JS fabrications is if you thought traditional Christianity was insufficient to get a human to heaven. Therefore you aren’t really a Christian, you are a Joseph Smithian.

[miliantnutcase]

I guess I prefer the idea that God gave black people their skin color to better protect themselves from the scorching sun...

[DelphiUser]

I Said: “I am not confused, anyone who mocks a testimony of God is mocking God.”

You Said: “I have had a revelation direct from God himself, that your testimony was not a testimony of God. If the person making a testimony is so deluded they have taken it upon themselves to claim to talk directly with God, then you certainly aren’t mocking God to point out they are a False Prophet.

A) I could have this post pulled for this on line, I'm not petty enough to.
B) I never claimed to talk to God, I claimed God talked to me, (Though I guess praying is talking to God, isn't it...)

I Said: “I have seen some of your bizarre hallucination posts, (ahem) and i will not bother posting about them, but so you won’t keep asking to be called a bigot:

You are a Bigot * 1000... Happy?”

You Said: Yes I am happy, because once again you prove how vacuous that term is.

I agree Bigot is a nonsense term to use in a religion forum, It looked like you wanted someone to call you a bigot, I try to oblige whenever I can...

You Said: The seed of my “bizarre hallucination posts” is always something bizarre itself. I am at root a satirist,

Please do not tempt your fellow freepers to go into your ancestry.

You Said: I take something irrational someone has said and expand it till it bursts of its own absurdity. I mock that which mocks itself, and you are quite the easy target.

Funny, I thought the same of you.

I Said: I received answers about Both, the answer to the Book of Mormon prayer was a vocal answer from God while I was alone in my room”

You Said: What are the voices telling you about the Superbowl is what I want to know?

I don't really follow sports anymore, I gave them up for Free republic (can't commit 100% to more than one thing...)

You Said: And why are the voices of God that I hear not equal to the voices you hear?

Someone who says they are writing satire and then complains that they are not getting taken seriously is not in full touch with reality.

You Said: I guess that’s cause you are soooo special. Perhaps those special God talks you have can be used to tell the rest of us what is right and wrong, since we obviously aren’t hearing the same commands you do.

Actually, it is probably because of my autism and not being very in touch with emotion, that said, I don't want to tell anyone right and wrong, I just want people to ask God, why is that a problem for the Antis?

[DelphiUser]

We don't have a tin ear.

Self selection, it's a wonderful thing...

[1000 silverlings]

Isn’t it though. You take your little Masonic password into the afterlife and I’ll take my trust in the Lord.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: “culling our doctrine for “Gotchas” and saying things designed to destroy faith.”

You Said: I consider it more an attempt to cut out the cancerous part of an otherwise healthy body. Had Joseph Smith never existed, would you be an atheist? I don’t think so, I think you would have been a Christian. So we are by no means trying to destroy faith, only cut out a false faith that we view as cancerous.

Actually, if Mormonism never existed, I would probably be Buddhist, the philosophy is great, the logic is irrefutable, and Christianity has way to many contradictions without the Book of Mormon to add it's testimony and clear up some things.

But hey, that's just my opinion of what i would do, I am sure many here are convinced they know far better than I what I would do for they are "Christians"

You Said: Here’s your problem DU,

Right here Most anti's would be screaming bloody murder and asking for my post to be pulled, LOL Antis are such pansies about that., well, go on

You Said: to be a Mormon you must effectively condemn the rest of us to hell.

Bzzt Wrong Again!

Mormon "Hell" or outer darkness is reserved for those who know without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is the savior, and then rebel against him any way. Please do not take this the "Wrong way" you just don't qualify, and frankly, neither do I.

You Said: Otherwise, if the Old and New Testament were sufficient, what need would there be for Joseph Smith [except to introduce inconsequential polygamy and baptism of the dead]? In other words, you believe the rest of us are failed Mormons (not failed Christians).

Actually, you have to try to fail, and Antis who are not Ex Mormons are not "Failed Mormons", Ex Mormons are "Failed Momrons" simply because they no longer are Mormon, even if they don't go anti.

You Said: If the Joseph Smith myth collapses, you are left with traditional Christianity, so the only reason you would defend the JS fabrications is if you thought traditional Christianity was insufficient to get a human to heaven. Therefore you aren’t really a Christian, you are a Joseph Smithian.

That was an amazing exercise in building theory on theory to arrive at a conclusion of unmistakably questionable accuracy.

I am a christian for I believe in Jesus Christ. Period. I also believe Joseph Smith was a prophet who served Jesus Christ and did his bidding. Traditional Christianity is not magic, it's tradition, traditional Buddhism is not magic it's tradition.

It boils down to this, was there a falling away as was predicted in the Bible? 2 Thes. 2:3

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

My logic on this is simple:
If there was no falling away, then the Catholic church is still the True church of God and all protestants will be damned to hell right along side the Mormons.

IF there was a falling away, then reform is not enough, for once the authority to act in God's name is lost, regaining it takes God or angels he has sent giving it to men to restore it to the earth. The protestant churches do not claim such an event, thus they are not God's church.

Either there was, or there was not fall, and in either case the protestants are wrong. The catholics in my opinion, have way too many unexplained inconsistencies, like the Nicene creed suddenly appearing in 325 AD when the Apostles never said half of what they are assuming in the Council of Nicea.

Either which way, I tell you of a truth, if you do manage in destroying my testimony of The Book of Mormon you will also have destroyed the credibility of the testimony I bear of Jesus Christ.

Let me give you an example, IF you have a Born again and you manage to convince them that the Bible is a sinful book, they will cease to believe in Jesus Christ.
Similarly, if you convince a Mormon that the Book of Mormon isn't true, and that is how they received their testimony of Jesus, you have just created yet another Atheist. I don't think the antis have thought this approach through.

[DelphiUser]

Whew, Caught up, well, Off to bed, BBL8R

[P-Marlowe]

Either which way, I tell you of a truth, if you do manage in destroying my testimony of The Book of Mormon you will also have destroyed the credibility of the testimony I bear of Jesus Christ.

But if the faith you have in the person you identify as Jesus Christ is not the real Jesus Christ, then you have been set on the path to the truth.

Admittedly when I discovered the fraud that Mormonism was, I was devastated and for a season I became an Atheist. But God led me to a saving faith in the Real Jesus Christ (not the spirit brother of Lucifer, but the Creator [not organizer] of the Universe and the One True and Living God Almighty who became man (not the man who became a God).

"If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" Mat 6:23.

My testimony is that the light that was in me when I was a Mormon was darkness. I was blind, but now I see.

The fact is that you have faith in "A Jesus Christ" but I don't believe you have a faith in "THE Jesus Christ". The Mormon Jesus Christ is a wholly different being than the Jesus Christ of True Biblical Christianity.

[colorcountry]

It boils down to this, was there a falling away as was predicted in the Bible? 2 Thes. 2:3 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So IF there was a falling away as mormonism contends, then the man of sin was revealed, the son of perdition is known. WHO is/was it?

[greyfoxx39]

!!