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To: Lord_Calvinus; Marlowe
Note that the Lord himself speaks about 2 resurrections:

“The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God:

the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth....

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

I don't know how anyone could miss this...But you did...

You clearly have two groups of dead people here...However, only one group is in the ground...Buried...Graves...What are the other dead people doing???

THEY'RE SPIRITUAL...Look at the last sentence you cited here...She's alive but she's dead...

There are not two physical resurrections here...The first one is referring to people dead 'in Christ', but alive physically...

That alone should change your theology...But it won't...You'll dance around that and go and take some other verse out of context and try to prove something that isn't so...

The 'first' resurrection has three parts to it...The firstfruits, the Harvest, and the gleanings...

The Harvest has not taken place yet...And how do I know??? Because we are not yet in Heaven...

The Harvest is the church...

Note, Marlowe that the FIRST Millennium is bracketed by 2 resurrections: “and they lived” and “but the rest... lived not.”

b>Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Is this you, or anyone you know??? You really believe you are in the (2000 year, so far) Millenium???

1,592 posted on 11/21/2007 11:35:44 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool; wmfights; Uncle Chip; Dr. Eckleburg
I don't know how anyone could miss this...But you did... You clearly have two groups of dead people here...However, only one group is in the ground...Buried...Graves...What are the other dead people doing??? THEY'RE SPIRITUAL...Look at the last sentence you cited here...She's alive but she's dead... There are not two physical resurrections here...The first one is referring to people dead 'in Christ', but alive physically...

I didn't miss it and that is the point. The first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection. The second resurrection is a physical one. What makes you think that the first one is suppose to be physical when, even John notes in his Apocalapse that he didn't see people alive in their bodies, but beheaded souls?

You see, this is what is so insane sometimes about Dispensationalism. They see a verse which clearly indicates that John sees souls, not people, and Dispensationalists run to claim it must be a physical resurrection. We'll examine your cited portion in a minute, but I feel the need to address something else you said before looking at it.

The 'first' resurrection has three parts to it...The firstfruits, the Harvest, and the gleanings... The Harvest has not taken place yet...And how do I know??? Because we are not yet in Heaven... The Harvest is the church...

You couldn't be more wrong that we are not ALREADY in heaven....

I didn't missing anything because the first resurrection is not a physical one; it is a spiritual one. When Christ was raised up and seated, we were all raised up and seated with him. We, well, at least some of us, rule and reign right now. The rest of you seem to be star gazing or something waiting for a sign of the coming of the kingdom of God, even though the Lord himself testifies that the kingdom does not come with observation.

We are in heaven RIGHT NOW and you missed it because you don't know how to properly read and interpret Scripture. It clearly says that we are seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus while you wait for a secret rapture which isn't going to come to spirit you away. You are safe at home right now.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Is this you, or anyone you know??? You really believe you are in the (2000 year, so far) Millenium???

To answer your questions, yes and yes.

You need to take note that John sees psuchas, souls, not living breathing in the flesh people. And, more importantly, John sees souls that were beheaded dia tan marturian, literally on account of the witness of Jesus and on account of the word of God. It is these people who lived and reigned. Note that the common theme in ALL the passages I've cited is that the people who came alive are all described in some spiritual sense, not a physical sense.

John 5: I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
Eph 2: when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
John 11: “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

I guess my ultimate rebuttal to you is I don't know how anyone could miss this... But you did...

Every instance of the first resurrection spoken of in the Bible is not spoken of in the sense of a physical resurrection. The language is remarkably similar. The dead will hear and live. He who lives and believes shall never die. And he who has a part in the first resurrection is immune to the second death.

Here is something else you havent' noticed: The beaheding on account of the witness of Jesus is not this physical beheading that Dispensationalists love to believe; it is a removal of the head of authority, i.e. Satan. On account of the witness of Jesus our head has been removed and we now have a new head, Jesus.

1,758 posted on 11/26/2007 8:30:08 AM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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