Answering the "Replacement Theology" Critics (Part 1)

American Vision ^ | 10/7/2005 | Gary DeMar

[blue-duncan]

“should we all give up and assume 20 minutes from now it will be more secular?”

Why do you assume that since the trend of the world is downward it should be a cause of pessimism? God already told us it would happen but He also said look up your redemption is at hand. He said (John 9:4)”I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.” and so must we inspite of what is going on around us.

He tells us we will have trials and tribulations here but to be of good cheer since He has already overcome them, but we still labor. It is alright to be realistic about the downward direction, however we are confident of the final victory and are engaged in doing our Father’s work now.

Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

[Uncle Chip]

Well, He said He it is finished and I believe Him. The offering for the sins of His flock has been accepted by God and the rest is just clean-up as Christ's sheep follow Him home. EVERYTHING is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Christ risen from the cross is the gauntlet thrown down to all creation. We are either with Him or against Him. Today.

You keep moving the goal posts. First it was finished at John. Then it was finished at the cross. Now it is to be finished by his saints? Is it finished yet??? Were there any prophecies left to fulfill after the cross??? How about this one from Amos 9:

"13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. 14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."

Are you with Him in this or against Him???

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Because Christ tells me He "has overcome the world," I see no "downward trend." I see Christ and God's will in every speck of existence.

And the more the word of God is preached, the more Christ's light shines which enables men to know the truth.

Christ said not to hide that light under a bushel. Why did He tell us this, if the world is in a "downward trend?"

It's kind of funny that a Presbyterian is preaching revival to a Baptist. 8~) I must be reading too much Spurgeon.

You know, for a moment pretend Calvin was among us today. Do you think he would apprehend a "downward trend" from those days of papal persecution or would he be happily amazed at the number of Christians and the spread of God's word to all parts of the earth?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Nope, the goal posts remain constant. That's the non-dispensational POV. One goal line, Jesus Christ, for all players on every team.

And Christ fulfils the law and the prophets because He said so. Christ concealed in the OT; revealed in the NT. Works for me.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." -- Matthew 5:17

[Quix]

Hope to get to some of you earlier replies . . .

But I’m increasingly shocked that soooooooooooooooo many

Replacementarian constructions on reality

seem to bend over backwards and do contortionist flip flops to maintain their death grip on VERY

UNBIBLICAL, UNHISTORICAL, ILLOGICAL constructions on reality.

I’m puzzled, greatly puzzled at what the root causes for that might be. Mystifying.

[blue-duncan]

“You know, for a moment pretend Calvin was among us today. Do you think he would apprehend a “downward trend” from those days of papal persecution or would he be happily amazed at the number of Christians and the spread of God’s word to all parts of the earth?”

Actually, I think he would look at the Muslim nations surrounding Israel and becomming more beligerant and say, “well, it looks like the 70 A.D. speculation was wrong and we mhad better get our house in order.”

I still don’t understand why you think just because of the downward trend, we stop working. The harder the times the more the work. we aren’t going to usher in the kingdom, He is. “They kingdom come” we pray, not help us bring it in.

[Uncle Chip]

And Christ fulfils the law and the prophets because He said so. Christ concealed in the OT; revealed in the NT. Works for me. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." -- Matthew 5:17

Good! Then we agree that God will fulfill his promise here in Amos 9 ...

"And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."

... because it certainly wasn't fulfilled in 70 AD, was it???

[Blogger]

Where is it inconsistent to say that Jesus fulfilled much of what the prophets had to say during his first coming; but, at his Second coming will fulfill the remainder? Nothing is Scripture says that Jesus has already fulfilled every single prophecy relating to Him in scripture. It says that he will. Even the Preterists don’t believe that all prophecy was fulfilled during His first coming. They believe that at least the destruction of Jerusalem some 40 years after his resurrection was in fulfillment to prophecy as well. We just happen to believe that He will fulfill all of the Old Testament and Revelation prophecies as well.

[Lee N. Field]

The Temple was burnt down, no one set up any abomination in it.

There's a mosque there now. A pagan place of worship. I'd say it's been pretty abominated.

[Quix]

There’s a mosque there now. A pagan place of worship. I’d say it’s been pretty abominated.

= = =

A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHOLESALE

SCRIPTURE MANGLING; RUBBER BIBLING.

Has almost no relationship to the BIBLICAL prophecies concerning THE

ABOMINATION THAT MAKES DESOLATE.

I’d think most 7th graders would know that . . . if they were true students of SCRIPTURE ALONE.

[Quix]

There’s a mosque there now. A pagan place of worship. I’d say it’s been pretty abominated.

= = =

I think this example now makes clear

that a major principle of the Replacementarian School of Theology model of exegesis

IS

LOOSEY GOOSEY

Anything they claim fits in the pot is supposed to fit . . . because they fantasize that it does.

[Lee N. Field]

Who do you read? Who do you listen to? Are you a member in good standing of a local Christian congregation?

[1000 silverlings]

Read the historical accounts of what happened in the Roman siege. The Temple was burnt down, no one set up any abomination in it.

Since you won't read the prophets, I'll give you a short summary, since your historical facts are lacking.

Hundreds of years before the temple burned down, and whether it was the first temple or the second one, the Israelites went astray, and set up abominations in their temple. They openly worshipped other gods, shorted God on the tithes, offered up lame and diseased animals. It got so bad that Malachi made this pronouncement against them.

Malachi 2:11

Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.

2:12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts.

But before this, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. warned them as well.

First and foremost, the Jewish priests desecrated the altar, which is why Jesus cleansed it, not once but 2 times, at the beginning of his ministry and at the end of his ministry.

Not only that but you have overlooked the other conquerors of Jerusalem, most notably the Seleucids, and the worst sort of antiChrist Antiochus IV who appointed the high priests who "set up" a system totally alien to Jewish law, and which was still in effect in Jesus day, which is why he said

"It is written: 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you are making it a den of thieves." Matthew 21:13

And this was "written" back in Jeremiah's day

Jeremiah 7:9

Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;

7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

7:11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.

Then of course you get the Hasmoneans whose reign culminated in the Herods, Idumeans(Edomite, son of Esau) as Kings of the Jews.

Finally, we have the advent of Christ and when He left, the last vestiges of God is gone from their temples and they are left desolate. The only temple that will ever be rebuilt by God is the invisible one made not by human hands and so the prophecy is fulfilled that Malachi 3:1

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

[DarthVader]

Replacement Theology is heresy, plain and simple.

[glide625]

Thanks much!

[Quix]

1. The Bible; slowly chipping away at memorizing I Cor 13 in Chinese.
2. Walvoord, currently . . . FR—I probably think Alamo-Girl is as close to my understanding of Scripture as most anyone else I know of. Been close enough to or acquaianted with a LOT of big name Christian leaders. Not been very impressed with much of any of them.

I like Max Lucado and Francis Frangipaine; Chuck Colson; Winkie Pratney’s current physical traumas and resurrection from his Korean death bed renew my respect for him and his teachings, testimony, life. He’s reminded me again . . . no striving in the flesh. Still a hard lesson given lots of givens.

Am almost to the place that I don’t think much of leaders who haven’t been through a few failings, crucibles and come out with some huge amounts of humility. Course that shows differently in different personalities but it’s very impactful. I think Rick Joyner’s right about the cloak of humility being crucial in these ENG TIMES.

3. a wide diversity of other topic articles . . . some for teaching
4. I mostly listen to Scripture [often going all night by my pillow] and Christian music. Took the TV out about a year ago.

About twice a year, a fiesty elderly spry, wirey black Pentecostal Baptist prophetic pastor comes up from Phoenix to minister in our era. She’s always been 100% accurate about what she’s spoken into my life By Holy Spirit, and all the lives of those I know who attend. A rarity. She’s tripped up about KJV only but I overlook that and she overlooks that I read other versions too.

5. Last time I touched base with Pastor, he seemed to indicate I was . . . though we don’t have our weekly lunch given he got so busy building his new house and with a lot of new church members . . . though we don’t actually have a formal membership.

And you?

Why?

[Uncle Chip]

According to Preterists the following was fulfilled in 70 AD:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." [Mt 24:29-31]

So then this "coming in the clouds with power and great glory" took place in 70 AD??? How come no one saw it or reported on it??? where did He go after this and what did He do with all the elect??? or did it just take place in the imaginations of the preterists???

And there are sola scripturists who would rather believe this fantasy than believe that that event is still yet future??? Get real --

[DarthVader]

KJV Onlyism is a cult movement denounced by the Baptists themselves. See link to Pilgrim Publications:

http://members.aol.com/pilgrimpub/unlearnd.htm

[Iscool]

KJV Onlyism is a cult movement denounced by the Baptists themselves. See link to Pilgrim Publications:

You prefer then, one of the Catholic bibles???

[Uncle Chip]

KJV Onlyism is a cult movement denounced by the Baptists themselves

Could the reason be that the Baptists are heavily invested in the NIV????

You should start a separate thread on this for discussion purposes -- I think it would be interesting, educational, and enlightening for all.