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Answering the "Replacement Theology" Critics (Part 1)
American Vision ^ | 10/7/2005 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54

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To: 1000 silverlings; Religion Moderator; topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg; Lee N. Field

Obviously, I missed something, but it has been my understanding that most Full Preterists come from the Postmill camp. Most Partial Preterists come from the Amill camp. I think the distinction is important for several reasons:

#1. Amills are NOT Replacementarians as Dispensationalists love to fling around. We belive in the Gentile ingrafting INTO Israel. It is hard to find racists when they believe they are joined to Jews.

#2. The clear gulf between Partial’s and Full’s is the testimony that the Lord is going to return to judge the earth. And, it seems to be a gulf that very few people cross to deny.

At least, this has been my observation. But, what do I really know. I’m not even a Full Partial Pretereist; just an over-overexurbant Amill.


401 posted on 11/08/2007 12:01:47 PM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: Lord_Calvinus

I never keep Amils, postmils et al any straighter than their convoluted twistings of Scripture.

Interestingly, FWIW, Walvoord has this to say re Mat 24 . . .

p381

“The second and third questions concerning signs of His coming and the end of the age actually were the same question because the age ends at the time of His coming. Matthew gives us the most complete answer to these two questions (Matt 24:4-30)”

“Scholars interpret Matthew from several different points of view. Usually their interpretation of prophecy in general dictates the interpretation of this section. Amillenarians, who deny a literal millenial reign of Christ, tend to take these prophecies in more of a general than specific way and frequently attempt to find fulfillment in the first century. Accordingly they attempt to relate most of the prophecies to the time when Jerusalem was destoyed in A.D. 70.”

“Post millenarians have a different problem in that they want to support their view that the world is going to get better and better as the Gospel gradually triumphs; but this passage of Scripture does not support this and, in fact, predicts increasing evil with the climax at the Second Coming. . . . “

“Only the premillenial interpretation tends to interpret this prophecy as literal and specific. Even among premillenarians, however, variations can be observed. Some hold that this entire passage will be fulfilled in the future in connection with the Great Tribulation. Others believe that the break comes at verse 9 with the previous predictions being general in character and the particular prophecies, beginning with verse 9, being fulfilled in the Great Tribulation. Still another point of view which is presented in this writing is that the entire period described in verses 4-14 are general prophecies that can find fulfillment throughout the present age, with verses 15-30 fulfilled in the Great Tribulation. However, these same prophecies and the events predicted in verses 4-14 are repeated in the Great Tribulation when what was perhaps partially fulfilled earlier then have a very literal and devastating fulfillment. The cewntral question is whether the specific signs given in verses 15-26 are the future Great Tribulation. Under this interpretation the sign of the abomination will be the beginning of the last three-and-a-half years when the world ruler takes over and the Great Tribulation begins.”P 383

EVERY PROPHECY IN THE BIBLE

JOHN F WALVOORD


402 posted on 11/08/2007 12:30:50 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Lord_Calvinus

I don’t know, I just read the bible


403 posted on 11/08/2007 12:41:37 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Lord_Calvinus; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; Lee N. Field
Obviously, I missed something, but it has been my understanding that most Full Preterists come from the Postmill camp. Most Partial Preterists come from the Amill camp. I think the distinction is important for several reasons:

If I understand full preterism, no millennial view makes any sense, because each millennial view posits a bodily second coming of Christ at the end at some point in the future. Full preterists deny the second coming, at least as it has been historically formulated in the creeds.

#1. Amills are NOT Replacementarians as Dispensationalists love to fling around. We belive in the Gentile ingrafting INTO Israel. It is hard to find racists when they believe they are joined to Jews.

As do us postmils.

#2. The clear gulf between Partial’s and Full’s is the testimony that the Lord is going to return to judge the earth. And, it seems to be a gulf that very few people cross to deny.

True.

At least, this has been my observation. But, what do I really know. I’m not even a Full Partial Pretereist; just an over-overexurbant Amill.

Sounds like an oxymoron. :-)

404 posted on 11/08/2007 1:30:39 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54

***Sounds like an oxymoron. :-)***

Who knows. It just seems strange that we had to be warned about Full Preterism and racism.


405 posted on 11/08/2007 2:26:15 PM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: topcat54; Lord_Calvinus; 1000 silverlings; Lee N. Field; tabsternager; TomSmedley; Alamo-Girl; ...
As do us postmils

Frankly, I just don't understand how every Christian isn't a postmil. If we believe the Holy Spirit works through the preaching of God's word to transform lives, then as the Bible is preached more and more it will continue to transform nations and the world, according to His precepts.

Under the postmil category you'll find names like Athanasius, Lorainne Boettner, John Calvin, Robert Lewis Dabney, Jonathan Edwards, Eusebius, Kenneth Gentry, A.A. Hodge, Charles Hodge, J. Marcellus Kik, J. Gresham Machen, Iain Murray, John Owen, W.G.T. Shedd, Augustus H. Strong, B.B. Warfield, Gary North and Greg Bahnsen.

Where these guys just foolish optimists?

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." -- Isaiah 55:11

406 posted on 11/08/2007 5:12:11 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

If we believe the Holy Spirit works through the preaching of God’s word to transform lives, then as the Bible is preached more and more it will continue to transform nations and the world, according to His precepts.

= = =

That tells God what HE HAS to have meant by that—to fit in your tidy little box.

But the Whole Counsel of Scripture indicates quite differently.


407 posted on 11/08/2007 5:39:32 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: P-Marlowe

“Would you not agree that the “heresies” of Calvin and Luther actually led to a better understanding of the truth of scripture?”

In their case, yes.


408 posted on 11/08/2007 5:42:55 PM PST by tabsternager
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To: Quix

Do you believe the word of God doesn’t transform lives by the hearing of it?


409 posted on 11/08/2007 5:50:54 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; topcat54; Lord_Calvinus
How do you guys interpret 2 Thess 2:

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it[the coming of Christ] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Did this event already happen in 70 AD at the destruction of the temple or is this still in the future?

JM
410 posted on 11/08/2007 7:19:48 PM PST by JohnnyM
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Of course I believe God transforms lives through the hearing of The Word.

That Word also teaches that the world will wax worse and worse and lawlessness will increase until the Great Tribulation . . . etc.

You’re such a good student of the Word. I thought you knew that.


411 posted on 11/08/2007 7:56:38 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: JohnnyM

You didn’t address me, and I don’t really know who the man of lawlessness was.

But what I do know is that since there’s no third temple mentioned in the Bible, he took his seat in the last one. Also, note the following verses:

Thessalonians 2:6-7: And now you know what IS holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness IS ALREADY at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.


412 posted on 11/08/2007 9:09:44 PM PST by tabsternager
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To: topcat54; tabsternager; Lee N. Field; xzins; Alamo-Girl
Run of the mill dispies get most of their theology from the corner "Christian" bookstore hawking the wares of folks like Hagee and Osteen.

I dare say that your run of the mill dispensational denier get most of their theology from the likes of V. Gene Robinson and Pope Benedict XVI.

413 posted on 11/08/2007 10:28:28 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: tabsternager
In their case, yes.

And if Luther and Calvin were correct in their "heresies" then who are you to decide if dispensationalism is some kind of damnable heresy?

414 posted on 11/08/2007 10:37:15 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: topcat54; xzins; blue-duncan; Quix
By carefully checking my past posts you will see that I'm not a "full preterist".

If you are not a full preterist, then you must be a partial dispensationalist.

415 posted on 11/08/2007 10:45:47 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: topcat54
[yes, we have an answer for it-it is wrong.]

That's not an answer. It's an assertion, and a wrong one to boot.

No, it's an answer based on what is described in Daniel, an abomination of desolation being set up in the holy Temple.

Morever, in Matthew 24:2 the Lord is asked about the signs leading to his coming and end of the world.

None of which happened in Luke 21.

416 posted on 11/08/2007 11:08:51 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Uncle Chip
The altar was profaned and the abomination was “set up”. Read the OT prophets. It’s not a big mystery and neither is Daniel

Read the historical accounts of what happened in the Roman siege.

The Temple was burnt down, no one set up any abomination in it.

417 posted on 11/08/2007 11:12:32 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Yes, but don’t the Jews today claim that the Holocaust was the worst thing that ever happened to them? It appears that is contrary to what the Lord says.

It is the worst thing to have happened to them so far, but worse is coming.

What is contrary to what the Lord says is the denial that He comes back to save them and they recognize him as their Messiah-this did not happen in 70Ad.

418 posted on 11/08/2007 11:15:06 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: tabsternager
[“Christians did not flee at the arrival of the armies, but when they withdrew for a time.” ]

For a short time, just long enough to get out, which was why Jesus told them to flee to the mountains, not into the city. And why He also told them: Matt. 24:17-18 “Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak.” BTW, notice that that’s in MATTHEW.

That is not what happened in Luke.

In Matthew they are told to flee when they see the Abomination of desolation set up in the Holy Place as predicted by Daniel.

That Holy Place is the Temple.

The Christians fled after the Roman armies pulled back for a short time when Titus went back to Rome.

419 posted on 11/08/2007 11:17:43 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: topcat54
[Moreover, Matthew isn't speaking to Jewish Christians, it is speaking to Jews, since the book of Matthew is a book directed to the Jew (note the genealogy back to Abraham), while Luke is a book for Gentiles, going back to Adam.]

A dispensational presupposition not supported by anything actually in the Bible.

Yes, it is supported by the genealogies that I gave you.

That is why Matthew only goes back to Abraham while Luke goes back to Adam.

Understanding the Bible means understanding differences as well as similitaries (rightly dividing)

420 posted on 11/08/2007 11:28:31 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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