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To: Mrs. Don-o
"Only Christ is sinless on his own account.Mary was rendered sinless on account of a prevenient action of God, applying Christ's future merits and perfection to her. Mary did no work to make her a sinless vehicle for God-in-the-flesh. It was purely on account of God's grace, and the work of Christ, that Mary was made sinless." (1) if your meaning is "sinless on their own account, the answer is: only Chr

She was only treated as all the elect are, their sins are not counted against them. When God looks at me He sees me as sinless, as he has removed my sins as far as the east is from the west and He sees them no more. The old testament saints were rendered sinless looking to the cross in anticipation of the work of Christ.

Mary, like them and us was a sinner that needed the grace of God.

Note that Mary, while free of in, is still "short of the glory of God." So her righteousness is entirely derivative,

As is my righteousness and the righteousness of all the saved

and is not symmetrical or commensurate with His. It is, as has been poetically expressed, like the reflected brightness of the moon in relation to the self-generated brightness of the sun.

Why is it important to you to have a sinless Mary?

478 posted on 10/26/2007 1:48:33 PM PDT by ears_to_hear (Pray for America)
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To: ears_to_hear
"She was only treated as all the elect are...Mary needed the grace of God. ...her righteousness is entirely derivative, As is my righteousness and the righteousness of all the saved.

Amen, Amen, Amen. That's one nice thing about discussing stuff with people who believe in predestination. Most of the argument just falls into place.

"Why is it important to you to have a sinless Mary?"

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Because Jesus' sinless human nature was derived entirely from her. As I think you agree, and as the Catechism states, the effects of original sin are the inheritance of our nature.

There's a little more discussion along these lines here.

Just for the sake of clarity, this doesn't make her equivalent to Christ or God. It makes her analogous to Eve --- only when Eve was still in the Garden of Eden, before the catastrophe. Eve was (at that time) sinless, and possessed a human nature as God intended it to be. Call it Human Nature Plan A. She and Adam, however, messed it up, which resulted in a defect in their nature, a defect which was heritable by their descendants. Surely we agree on that?

562 posted on 10/26/2007 3:12:34 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (The Bible tells me so.)
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