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To: Mad Dawg
I don't see how it means that she sinned. What it explicitly says is that, through no work of her own she was made sinless by "prevenient" grace. How does it mean she sinned?

Sin is defined as a violation of the law. The Catechism says ONLY CHRIST KEPT THE LAW PERFECTLY or could keep the law perfectly. That HAS to mean that mary DID NOT keep the law PERFECTLY , therefore she broke it at some point or points, that would mean she sinned. Scripture says if you break one law you have broken them all.

Yes. Correct. No argument there. She was sinless, as the above quoted passage says, through the grace of God and the work of Christ

Being freed from GUILT is different than NOT being guilty. All of the elect are freed from the guilt of sin, but that does not mean we have not or do not sin.

Hbr 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Hbr 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

429 posted on 10/26/2007 11:56:37 AM PDT by ears_to_hear (Pray for America)
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To: ears_to_hear
We're still not making contact. Are you arguing with the passage you quoted? I thought you were saying there was some internal inconsistency.

If there is "nothing binding" If there is an "error" I would like to know which is error, That only Christ could keep the whole law perfectly, or that Mary also kept the law perfectly?

Isn't that saying there's an internal inconsistency?

But - and I know you all disagree with this - we're saying that Mary indeed could NOT of herself keep the law and be sinless (But Jesus could) but was given the grace, at the moment of her conception, to be free not just from guilt but from sin itself. God's grace kept her actually sinless, we say, not just freed from guilt.

I'm not saying this to persuade you but only to clarify how the Catechism can say what it says and not be contradicting itself.

Is that at least clear? I say again, I'm not trying to get you to agree with the doctrine, but to help you be precise about with what you are in disagreement.

493 posted on 10/26/2007 2:11:56 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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