Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
|
|
|
|
|
The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
Check... checkmate?
AMEN!
"Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth." -- Romans 8:33"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." -- Romans 4:5
No wonder the RCC has to confuse and wrongly define sanctification and justification in order to contradict God's clear understanding -- Elected by God; Justified by Christ; Sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible defines idol-worshiper, not me or any other person.
No, he's right. :>)
For what it's worth, non-Rome focused Christianity was alive and well in England PRIOR to Augustine. And I believe it was fairly independent afterwards up to the time of the Normans.
That’s a cop-out.
What a load of garbage. I click on Catholic stories to find information I'm interested in, and instread regularly find a group of disruptors going on about Mary or praying to saints or some other item that was of great importance in 16th century disputations. This disruptors come to gratify their ego or their spleen, and they never leave. I am tired of it, as are a number of other people. I never go on Protestant stories to begin attacking the beliefs of Protestants. Never. In fact, I believe all Christians need to work together to combat the common enemy, an enemy that is growing in strength and polluting our culture. You can call this enemy secularism or relativism or atheism, but we all know the enemy is out there.
If you're really interested in saving souls rather than scoring cheap debating points, confront that enemy. Try to convert those who don't believe in God or don't believe in Christ. And leave those of us who do believe alone.
LOL! You're just ribbin' us...right?
I am still waiting to learn if Padre Pio ever showed the stigmata to anyone?
Oh, it is far worse to be an idolater or a blasphemer than a pinhead.
Much worse.
Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have." -- Luke 8:17-18"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." -- 1 Corinthians 10:11-12
"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." -- 1 Timothy 4:16 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
"Take heed."
“No Catholic I have ever met does any such thing, nor do they believe the Blessed Mother to be a “co-redeemer”. Neither from a priest nor a deacon nor a bishop have I heard any such doctrine.”
You can say it until the end of time but I truly believe that there are people who can’t hear the truth for their own pride, the strong delusion that afflicts them. You know what our Lord did when the town refused to hear Him. That’s what I’m doing lately: following His expample.
There are (I think) a few pictures of his hands which show them.
I've read that, at one point, he underwent a minor operation without anesthesia, because he didn't want to risk the doctors inspecting them, in violation of his superiors' orders, while he was unconscious.
Then why do you regularly call us idolaters and blasphemers, and then whine when you're called "pinhead"???
Get the plank out of your eye!
If there is "nothing binding" If there is an "error" I would like to know which is error, That only Christ could keep the whole law perfectly, or that Mary also kept the law perfectly?
Isn't that saying there's an internal inconsistency?
But - and I know you all disagree with this - we're saying that Mary indeed could NOT of herself keep the law and be sinless (But Jesus could) but was given the grace, at the moment of her conception, to be free not just from guilt but from sin itself. God's grace kept her actually sinless, we say, not just freed from guilt.
I'm not saying this to persuade you but only to clarify how the Catechism can say what it says and not be contradicting itself.
Is that at least clear? I say again, I'm not trying to get you to agree with the doctrine, but to help you be precise about with what you are in disagreement.
According to scripture each member of the Trinity has a specific role in salvation.
The Father elects and draws, the Son saves and judges and the Holy Spirit convicts and enlightens.
Christ told us to have faith IN HIM
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment::9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Faith and belief are the flip sides of the same coin
Jesus never taught salvation by works, in fact he taught just the opposite
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
What is the will of the Father?
Scripture says this is His will for men
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The will of the Father is that we believe, so what does Jesus say to the man that thought his works would earn him salvation ?
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.
I had an elderly friend who ried to sneak a photo of Padre Pio and got a fine Italian bawling out for his pains, or so he says.
“For what it’s worth, non-Rome focused Christianity was alive and well in England PRIOR to Augustine. And I believe it was fairly independent afterwards up to the time of the Normans.”
Oh, I know; even later in Ireland. Up in Scotland there is a carving showing +Anthony the Great which is identical to a nearly contemporary one from Egypt which demonstrates the close connection between monastics up in Scotland in the 4/5th centuries and those who inhabited the Egyptian desert. Celtic Catholicism was VERY Orthodox/Eastern. Even some of the old religious folk stories and folkways are identical to this day in both Ireland and Greece, but show up nowhere else between, say, the Channel and the Adriatic. My mother always claimed that the Irish Church was really founded by a group of shipwrecked Greek monks!:)
That' very like my own (alleged) thought process. In a way it was trying to live Calvinism which led me to Catholicism. Scripture says "The LORD will fight for you and you have only to be still." Being still takes a lot of grace, I found.
Don't tell me; take it up with Dr. Eckleburg, who says she's saved by "faith alone in Jesus alone".
(Poor Jesus, forcibly extracted from the Trinity, estranged from his mother, surrounded by a bunch of dead people.)
When I search {queen of heaven}I get Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17; 44:18 ; 44:19 & 44:25
There is no doubt as who is the queen of heaven ; a pagan goddess
There is no doubt this worship of the queen of heaven is as a direct
result of the first pontiff of the roman church at Nicea.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.