Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[DelphiUser]

I Said: The logic is simple: (accompanied by appropriate scriptures, I just quoted the Bible most of the time)

• Offer a free Book of Mormon
• Offer a free Bible
• Ask people to pray about both, and compare the spirit
• Testify of the truth contained in BOTH books

You Said: BOTH???

Why yes, I am asking them to read two books, so "both", besides, if the Book of Mormon is true, then the others were also written by a prophet, and they can read them next, I am not trying to bury people with reading.

You Said: Why don't you offer for free The Doctrines & Covenants which actually contain some of the things you folks practice?
Why don't you offer for free The Pearl of Great Price?

If someone gets baptized, it is not uncommon for friends in their ward to buy them a full set of scriptures, I'll gladly fill that one, 'K?

[DelphiUser]

You are a class act DelphiUser.

Why thank you, it's nice to get recognized once in a while, I have also been impressed by your comments, on this thread.

I hope you have a nice day, and God bless.

[Elsie]

For me, it is the attitude of those that wave around a false creed and demand that I subscribe to it to be a Christian. Thou hypocrite!

One: No one 'demanded' ANYTHING from you; especially me!

Two: Just WHERE is the hypocracy?

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I merely asked you to state what you think is wrong with the creed, and you are acting like I've pissed in your Wheaties®!

[Old Mountain man]

being of one substance with the Father;

Where does it say that in the scriptures? Looks like greek mysticism to me.

[DelphiUser]

I merely asked you to state what you think is wrong with the creed, and you are acting like I've pissed in your Wheaties®!

IMHO your post sounds like:

I merely attacked your religion, called you naive, gullible, and insulted everyone who believes in your religion as a rube fit only to be taken advantage of by the P.T. Barnums of this world.
I called your founder a fraud, your current leaders liars, and posters no FR disingenuous.
I behaved in the rudest, most obnoxious manner I could figure out and then when you finally get mad, and I put on an air of innocence (in the hopes of getting you to do something that will allow me to further condemn you) by saying something like: "what is a girl to do when you behave so unpredictably?"

Oh, and I can spot the hypocrisy, in just this last post. You behavior is IMHO just not Christ like.

And before you say it, you asked on an open thread and I quote "Just WHERE is the hypocrisy" so it's answering your questions, not "Getting Personal" Don't want to know? Don't ask.

Elsie, I hope you have a nice day, and that God touches your soul with his love that you might share the love of Christ for your fellow man I hope you will see that attacking anyone who professes a belief in Jesus is just not in keeping with your profession of Christianity.

I truly hope you will have a blessed day.

[Elsie]

being of one substance with the Father;
Where does it say that in the scriptures?

Will THIS suffice?

 

John 10:31-33

31. Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,

32. but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33. "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

[Elsie]

Dang!!

It splashed into yours as well!

...I called your founder a fraud...

posting HISTORICAL DATA that shows this to be TRUE somehow flies right past your All Seeing Eyes.

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Tell it to the VISIBLE 'father' that JS saw in his 'vision'!

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

[Elsie]

---

Senator: The war's over. Our side won the war. Now we must busy ourselves winning the peace. And Fletcher, there's an old saying: To the victors belong the spoils.
Fletcher: There's another old saying, Senator: Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

---

Sim Carstairs: Ten year I been ferryin' Kansas Redlegs, Union cavalry, Missouri guerillas... you name it. Mad dogs them guerillas. You look sideways at 'em...
[snaps a rope like a noose]
Sim Carstairs: they kill ya.
Carpetbagger: Sound like hard men to do business with.
Sim Carstairs: You bet. You know in my line of work, you gotta be able either to sing "The Battle Hymn Of The Republic" or "Dixie" with equal enthusiasm... dependin' upon present company.
Carpetbagger: Can't say as I blame you for that. Only good business to play it safe.

---

Grandma Sarah: This Mr. Wales is a cold-blooded killer. He's from Missouri, where they're all known to be killers of innocent men, women and children.
Lone Watie: Would you rather be riding with Comancheros, Granny?
Grandma Sarah: No, I wouldn't.

[MHGinTN]

Simon Magus ‘professed’ belief in Christ, even did big magic in His name, but I don’t think he’ll be among the redeemed even though he thought so much of himself that he called himself ‘Peter’ in Rome.

[Old Mountain man]

So your creed is based upon Jesus’ enemies claims? Where did JESUS ever claim to be GOD?

[MHGinTN]

"Where did JESUS ever claim to be GOD?"

You could start with Philip's physics lesson in John 14. THEN, consider the verdict from the High Priest for which the Sanhedrin sought Jesus's execution. You might look at what Jesus told the men threatening to kill Him --that if they did, He would raise His body again three days later. If you really wanted to explore the notion, you could look at the Christophenies found in the Old Testament. But in the end, you will have to use your brain, to comprehend why He said that when He left the disciples He would send the Holy Spirit to them to instruct them in all things. Only God 'directs God's Spirit where and to whom it whispereth.'

[Old Mountain man]

So you expect me to accept your indirect inferences, none of which quote the Lord Jesus Christ as stating He is God. In fact the scriptures are replete with references to them as separate beings. Why would He pray to Himself?

[Elsie]

What’s so bad in that creed; IN YOUR HUMBLE OPINION?

[Elsie]

In fact the scriptures are replete with references to them as separate beings.

1 Timothy 6:13-16

 

 13.  I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
 14.  That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
 15.  Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of Lords;
 16.  Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

 

Joesph Smith lied when he said he SAW the Father.

 

 

[Elsie]

Joesph Smith lied when he said he SAW the Father.

Oh; I'm sorry perhaps JS didn't LIE after all!

He didn't DIRECTLY say he saw the Father; but a PERSONAGE who said, "This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!"

[Old Mountain man]

I doubt very much that he would lie about that. I do not doubt that you cannot find sufficient scriptural backup for your creed so that you must resort to childish name calling. Go and consult with your preacher, he may give you some better names to call us. Go attack islam or something else you don’t know about.

[Elsie]

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

  17 ..... One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My ^fBeloved ^gSon. Hear Him!

  18 My object in going to ^ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all ^awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those ^bprofessors were all ^ccorrupt; that: “they ^ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ^ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the ^fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the ^gpower thereof.”

  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. 

 

 

CHRIST is NEVER mentioned and the FATHER is never mentioned: just PERSONAGES.  Strange.

[Elsie]

I do not doubt that you cannot find sufficient scriptural backup for your creed....

You're the one that cannot do that.

WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT THE CREED?

[Old Mountain man]

Pay attention: Jesus Christ and God and the Holy Spirit are three (3) separate personages. That is consistent with all written scripture of the New Testament.

Got it now?

[Elsie]

I do not doubt that you cannot find sufficient scriptural backup for your creed ...

I gave you Scripture; just like you asked.

You dismissed them as irrelevant.

Jewish religious scholars; whose life was possible becaused they knew the law inside and out, knew EXACTLY what Jesus was claiming.

In your superior knowledge, you claim they didn't know what they were talking about.