Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[colorcountry]

Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today. "I thought if he could go public, so can I," said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him "thousands of reasons the church can't be what it claims to be."

Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn's excommunication announced to the wards at men's priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare. They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church...................

[colorcountry]

It’s not secret it’s sacred......

[greyfoxx39]

:)

[DesScorp]

I’m an ex-Mormon, and I quit because I no longer believed in the LDS doctrines. That said, it sounds like this guy wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to denounce the church as false, yet he doesn’t want to be excommunicated. If he really no longer believes, then he needs to get a big cup of STFU and just leave the church. He can criticize it from the outside if he likes, but is he really that surprised that he’s being kicked out the way he’s doing things?

[Old Mountain man]

Why don’t you read it yourself, as well as its associated creeds, and pray about them. They are NOT scripture, under your definition.

[MHGinTN]

I read the B of M and prayed about it, to ask if it was truly a revelation from God. I got a negatory on that one. How do you judge that my negatory was less correct than your ‘burning in the bosom’, if you had one?

[Old Mountain man]

I don’t judge you at all. That may be your problem, passing judgement on my faith for no reason.

[MHGinTN]

So you will not answer the question regarding my negatory answer when I prayed about the B of M, but you urge folks to seek an answer regarding the fictional work known as your religion's scriptures. Ooooo kay

And just for your reference, my reason for opposing Mormonism is due to the commission Christ proclaimed, to go into all the world and teach the Gospel. FR reaches the world. I am very much in opposition to Mormonism because it has lead too many astray by the fabrications of Joseph Smith. He was a false prophet and a liar who has established a religion which contradicts Christianity. So, yes, I am in opposition to try and prevent more being lead astray with the proselytizing your church does.

[DelphiUser]

So you will not answer the question regarding my negatory answer when I prayed about the B of M, but you urge folks to seek an answer regarding the fictional work known as your religion's scriptures. Ooooo kay

I had asked you a few questions about that story, which you declined to answer, are you still in touch with your best friend, the one who asked you to read the BOM?

What did he say when you told him you felt guilty about reading the Book of Mormon after talking to a bible study teacher?

Last time, you said you just felt guilty, now you are saying you got a negative answer, which is it?

Please understand, I am not questioning your story, but you asked what we had to say about it, and I have a few questions.

And just for your reference, my reason for opposing Mormonism is due to the commission Christ proclaimed, to go into all the world and teach the Gospel. FR reaches the world.

Again, with that? If I over hear you speaking to your wife and you say, go and pay all your bills with my check book, is it ok for me to pay my bills with your money?

The command in the scriptures was not given to you, it was given to the apostles.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

This is not a command for you any more than you are to take Abraham's son and sacrifice him on mount moriah.

I am very much in opposition to Mormonism because it has lead too many astray by the fabrications of Joseph Smith. He was a false prophet and a liar who has established a religion which contradicts Christianity.

I thought you were not supposed to pick fights...

Then, if you were so sure everyone would receive the negative answer you are claiming to have received, you would (logically) be encouraging everyone to pray and know for themselves whether or not our church is true, yet you do not.

Your position is one that defies logic.

So, yes, I am in opposition to try and prevent more being lead astray with the proselytizing your church does.

Being led astray by praying to God? Being led astray by Putting our religion to The Test". The test: Get a Get a Book of Mormon for free, Get A Bible for free if you don't already have one. Once you have these two books, read and pray about both, Try the Spirits Whether they are of God, Remember, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." . All we Momrons are asking is for any who want to know to ask... "And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" MHG, you may or may not be telling the truth, I may or may not be telling the truth, but God, he always tells the truth:

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Men and Brethren, Lurkers, and anti Momrons, Give God the chance to tell you his truth, and once he has all such arguments as go on on internet boards across the world will be moot for when God speaks, and you hear his words, peace will reign in your heart.

I would invite all men to come unto Jesus Christ, and enter into his rest, Amen.

[Diamond]

“Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.” — John Donne

Batter my heart, three-personed God; for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o’erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurped town, to another due,
Labor to admit you, but O, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
but is captived, and proves weak or untrue.
yet dearly I love you, and would be loved fain,
But am betrothed unto your enemy.
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again;
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor even chaste, except you ravish me.


John Donne 

Cordially,

[DelphiUser]

Well met and well said.

Thank you for the thought you put into your reply.

[SwankyC]

It isn't like he has a fatwa against him.

Yea, try living in Utah and say that. Sorry but the Mormons pretty much run or have a hand in everything here and one could easily be black balled in this state.

[DelphiUser]

I get the feeling this thread is winding down.

I cannot help but notice some unique things that have happened on this thread.

I pointed out what I believed to be Juvenile behavior on this thread, specifically:

1. Name calling.
2. Posting about someone without pinging them.
3. Removing people from the To line when responding to their posts.
4. Addressing people indirectly so as not to be required to ping them.

I referred to these kinds of behaviors as "Petty" and "Childish". I was reported to the owner of this board, who did not respond to the post calling upon him.

Later in the thread, the same tactic of intimidation was used by various posters, with first the religion moderator, and then the Admin Moderator.

Allow me to say that posting to a moderator for anything that is not really an abuse of the system, is Moderator abuse, IMHO, and should not be allowed either, they put in lots of time here, and their job should be to police (catch rule breakers) not "referee" discussions (Again, my opinion).

Throughout this thread, I have employed a new tactic, I have actually challenged people to read the scriptures and pray. Various posters have tried to explain why you should not pray, and it has not been a successful argument, because the scriptures are, of course, replete with commands to pray. I have added a new section to my page on FR, called Put our religion to "The Test", This section has links to the most obvious scriptures commanding people to test try and ask.

Suggestions for improvement gladly accepted, (Thank you for the many spelling errors that have been pointed out to me, and I hope fixed).

As Fred Thompson entered the campaign, I saw a drop in the anti activity, this was no doubt due to the flurry of articles about Fred sucking away all the news cycles on Mitt. I am a Fred Thompson Supporter, but I have been active on the Mitt threads because they often turned into Anti-Mormon festivals. I will continue to defend the church, but would love to spend more time on the Fred Thompson threads, thus I am sharing with my fellow Mormons the tactics I have found to be successful.

The logic is simple: (accompanied by appropriate scriptures, I just quoted the Bible most of the time)

• Offer a free Book of Mormon
• Offer a free Bible
• Ask people to pray about both, and compare the spirit
• Testify of the truth contained in BOTH books

The results are predictable:

• Attempts to discredit the Book of Mormon without reading it. (prayer is a simpler way to know the truth)
• Accusations of being dishonest. (by asking people to pray?)
• Claims of having a negative response (so, they should encourage others to read also...so they can know it's false)
• Claims that Satan will answer a prayer to God. (not scriptural, Denies the principles of Christianity, Makes Satan more powerful than God)
• Temptations to break rules so you can be reported to the Mods.
• People seeing the bankrupt position of the anti's.
• People getting a free copy of the Book of Mormon.
• People Getting a Free copy of the Bible.
• People Reading them, feeling the spirit and doing what God tells them is true.

There is a down side, we will never know who we helped to find the truth, but it also means the Anti's will not know who to attack for being interested. Oh well Having had success on FR with people before, I am perfectly willing to work on faith and without a way to know. God bless, and keep up the Good Work.

[MHGinTN]

I wonder why this poster reminds me of Absalom?

[Diamond]

Well met and well said.

You can thank John Donne for that, not me:^) The sonnet I posted has been my favorite of his for many years.

Cordially,

[Diamond]

I get the feeling this thread is winding down.

What? You have given up on "the challenge"?

Cordially,

[MHGinTN]

I have a thought experiment for you, Diamond.

For this experiment we will set a few parameters:

1) You can answer the question I'm about to ask of you with just a fingernail pressure on my arm or not; no other response will be considered your response.
2) You are not to compare my question or the substance of my question with anything I have said prior to this question, because someone may have misquoted me or left out something in a comment.
3) I have compiled a booklet of letters, some of which are from real people and some of which I have created out of my imagination.
4) You are restricted to only answering truthfully.

Here's the question to you: Is the pile of letters true?

[MHGinTN]

Ping-a-ling-a-ling ... if you’re interested in this issue of ‘proofing’ the Book Of Mormon using the prescribed method pushed by the Mormonism Apologists and Missionaries.

[Old Mountain man]

Amen.

[Old Mountain man]

AMEN!

[Old Mountain man]

Seems like your negative answer varies from post to post. Make up your mind: did you really pray for an answer as to the truth of it or did you get embarassed after talking to your Bible study teacher?