Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[colorcountry]

Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today. "I thought if he could go public, so can I," said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him "thousands of reasons the church can't be what it claims to be."

Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn's excommunication announced to the wards at men's priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare. They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church...................

[TheDon]

Everlasting for those that enter into it anyway.

[SeaHawkFan]

Mormons generally also don’t know that Smith and Brigham Young were also screwing the wives of other Mormons.

[SeaHawkFan]

Keep in mind that in this case, as in the case of any excommunication from the LDS Church, the only side you will hear is that of the excommunicated person. The LDS Church regards excommunication proceedings as confidential and never makes public their side of the issue. That leaves the excommunicant free to say whatever he or she desires, and no response from the Church will ever be forthcoming. Every issue has two sides, and in this case you will only hear one.

The Mormon church is publicly announcing his excommunication. How can you claim there is only on side being presented? Could it be that his allegations about Mormonism are true. If they are false, surely the church could refute them.

[magisterium]

Pretty shaky stuff, relative to both Judaism and early Christianity before it was ...uh...”corrupted”...shortly after the death of the last Apostle. Anyway, how is it that God, in the middle of the 19th Century, still speaks Elizabethan English when giving dictation?

[2pugs4me]

“The Mormon church is publicly announcing his excommunication. How can you claim there is only on side being presented? Could it be that his allegations about Mormonism are true. If they are false, surely the church could refute them.”

______________________

What is confidential is the excommunication proceeding itself, wherein all the evidence is presented and considered. This happens in front of a council of twelve plus the three members of the presidency of the local unit. Of the twelve, 6 are assigned to present the Church’s case and 6 are assigned to make sure the member is treated fairly and there is no abuse of process. Evidence presented at this proceeding will not be made public by the Church.

Besides, the LDS Church has better things to do than to publicly refute every accusation made against it, whether distorted, based on misunderstanding, malicious or just plain absurd. Things like: bringing souls to Christ, caring for the poor, attending to the needs of our members and neighbors, sending humanitarian aid to areas in need worldwide, providing low cost educational loans to young adults in developing countries, etc. If we spent our time responding to the whole “concatenation of diabolical and nefarious rascality” that appears on a daily basis, we would hardly have time to attend to more important things.

[SeaHawkFan]

Besides, the LDS Church has better things to do than to publicly refute every accusation made against it, whether distorted, based on misunderstanding, malicious or just plain absurd.

And if the accusations are true?

[2pugs4me]

“And if the accusations are true?”
______________________

What can I say? I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be the restoration of the Savior’s Church on earth, you don’t. While I’m not claiming to know everything about our history and certainly am not claiming our leaders are perfect, I do believe they are/were righteous individuals, although flawed as we all are, who are and have been used as instruments in the hands of God to do His work on the earth. I have many good reasons for my belief, including my ongoing study of the Bible (KJV), which I dearly love and have read many times over the past 40 years.

Many things, taken out of context, look odd or even truly bizarre to someone who doesn't know the inside story. BTW, if you’d like an example of just how bizarre something perfectly rational can look taken out of context, read this when you have a minute:

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~thompsoc/Body.html

No more time to respond to posts today. Enjoy what’s left of it.

[Logophile]

Can have people intimately familiar with the Mormonism heresies telling others the truth now can they! We’ve seen here at FR how the dissembling and deceit runs deep within Mormonism.

Actually, what we have seen here on Free Republic is the ridiculous lengths to which anti-Mormons will go to smear the LDS Church.

For instance, you recently previously posted this nonsense in which you allege that the Book of Mormon is demonic, self-contradictory, and "dripping with deceitful guile." It is, you wrote, "The very work of demons for human consumption!"

As proof, you cited Moroni 10:4, which you claim contradicts itself. When it was pointed out to you that you had misread the verse, you suddenly had nothing more to say on the subject.

An admission that you were wrong would have been nice. An apology for your overheated rhetoric would have been better. I won't hold my breathe for either one, however.

Now, tell me why anyone should believe anything you have to say about Mormonism?

[Vigilanteman]

There's already been a gaggle of current and former elected officials who happened to have been Mormon, including those from states with tiny Mormon populations.

The idea that membership in a church which happens to be out of the so-called mainstream disqualifies someone from holding or running for public office is silly and Unamerica.

Mitt Romney should have to compete for the nomination based on his record in public office and his impressive resume, not on the basis of his religion. For every voter who will oppose him because of his religion, there will be at least another one who will give him a sympathy vote he might not otherwise get.

[MHGinTN]

The fact that I made no reply to your stupid claim that I had misread the verse is somehow your anchor for Mormonism being true and the Bible false. Good luck with that, dweeb. BTW, how many other names do you post under at FR?

[MHGinTN]

Well, to dream is blind sublime ... dream on, but I am working to prevent Romney from getting the nomination because I live amongst Conservative Christians who will flat out not vote for a man steeped in Mormonism when they learn a few of the seemy truths on that religion. You can ignore the truths about Motrmonism all you want, but they will still blow Romney away when it comes time to vote and a small but vital percentage choose to eschew him because of his religious beliefs. It is far more in play than the religion issue was in the Kennedy election because the differences between Catholics and Protestants are mere groove compared to the chasms apart between Mormonism and Christianity.

[MHGinTN]

BTW, thanks for the invitation to post the entry to which you referred, here again.

It never ceases to amaze me that Mormons do not comprhend the demonic nature of their quote: "Moroni 10: 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." ... It never occurs to the deluded that this passage is self-contradictory! 'Ask God if these things are not true then He will manifest the truth of it unto you?' If the thing is untrue how can the truth of it (it is not true) be manifest as truth? Well, of course, by embracing a gross lie! The very work of demons for human consumption! It is apparently impossible for Mormon adherents to see how the verse in James is worded without guile while the verse in the BM is worded dripping with deceitful guile. Of course, when one opposed to the deceit in Mormonism shows the deceit to the adherent, then it cannot be God using the opposition to the heresies to show where the deceit is to be found! It is pure anti-Mormonism!
361 posted on 09/19/2007 1:44:43 PM EDT by MHGinTN

[Logophile]

The fact that I made no reply to your stupid claim that I had misread the verse is somehow your anchor for Mormonism being true and the Bible false. Good luck with that, dweeb. BTW, how many other names do you post under at FR?

It is amazing how much misinformation you can pack into one short post.

If my claim were "stupid," you have had plenty of opportunity to refute it. Even now, you could demonstrate the stupidity of my previous post. Instead, you resort to name-calling. Could it be that that is all you have to offer?

You also try to distract attention from your gaffe by insinuating that I tried to show that the Bible is false. That of course is nonsense. For the record, I believe the Bible to be true, and I believe it supports Mormonism.

And since you asked, I post under one name at Free Republic.

[Colofornian]

Everlasting for those that enter into it anyway.

Which, of course, gives lie to the claim that polygamy is a "yesteryear" concept for modern Mormons. Either polygamy was a 19th-century ideal, or polygamy was an eternal practice (minus the 20th & 21st centuries).

[Logophile]

You are repeating yourself. Unfortunately, your post makes no more sense the second time around.

I won't waste bandwidth reposting my reply. Anyone who wants to read it can do so HERE.

But I would add one thing to my previous post. I urge every person to put the the Book of Mormon to the test:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.

7 And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever. (Moroni 10:3-7)

Ask God; he will answer.

[Vigilanteman]

I live amongst Conservative Christians who will flat out not vote for a man steeped in Mormonism when they learn a few of the seemy truths on that religion.

Yeah, I guess that explains why Romney's dad couldn't ever get elected governor of Michigan. And why no Mormon has ever been elected to anything outside places where they constitute a majority.

I know a few Conservative Christians myself. In fact, I are one. But the number who are as bigoted and vocal as you are few.

The number who are obsessed with keeping Mormons out of public life are fewer still. Get a life.

[Logophile]

Thanks for your calm and reasonable posts.

Although I am not a Romney supporter, I will vote for him (or one of the other Republican candidates) over Hillary Clinton (or any of the Democrat candidates). It is not a matter of religion, but of politics.

[andysandmikesmom]

I am going to disagree with you on a few points..I live among many Conservative Christians as well, and the experiences that you may have had, differ greatly from my own...when the folks in my neighborhood, or folks I meet up with during my daily round, start talking about politics, and the different candidates, rarely is the fact the Romney is a Mormon even brought up...people are concerned about the war in Iraq, people are concerned about illegal immigration, people are concerned about taxes, people are concerned about the issues facing us...they want to know what Romney says about those issues, what Romney proposes, should he become president..almost no one I have talked to, brings up Romneys religion as a plus or minus, regarding voting for or against him...I know many one issue voters, who look at only one issue of the candidates, and make up their minds, based on that one issue...then there are those, who take the totality of what a candidate says, and compare that with the totality of what the other candidates say, and they make up their minds based on, in ‘totality’ who they think the best candidate is...now Christian Conservatives, who look only at Romneys religion, and disqualify him, based on his religion, are one issue voters, and in my way of thinking, they are considering an issue, that most voters dont...that is fine tho, people can vote for whomever they wish, for whatever reasons they wish...I just dont see Romneys religion, being the great big bug-a-boo, that you seem to see it as being...

And I completely disagree with your characterization that during the Kennedy/Nixon election, that the gulf between Cathoicism, and Protestantism, was a mere groove, compared to the chasm between ‘Christianity’ and ‘Mormonism’....that does not fit in at all, with what I remember from that election...I was 15 at the time, and I know, that in the Methodist church, that I was raised in, I overheard almost all of the adults, saying that they would never vote for Kennedy, based on the fact that he was a Catholic...some of them, I swear, thought Catholics, had horns...they all thought if Kennedy won, the Pope would rule America...silly, you say?...why yes, it was silly to think that way...

I dont see much of a difference in the climate of the voters, regarding the candidates religion, between those voting for who they did in 1960, and those who will be voting in 2008....

I really do believe that you are completely off the mark here...of course, it is just my own opinion, but in my view, most people dont care if Romney is a Mormon or not...what most people want to know, is how Romney is going to look out for them, and for their children, and how Romney is looking out for America and its future...

I am sure that you will disagree with me vehemently here, and that is fine...you have presented your beliefs and experiences and I have presented mine...they are at complete odds with each other...so be it...and no, I am not Mormon, and I do think that many of the things within the Mormon church, as I have understood them, are just plain odd and weird...but I would never go so far as to say, that because one is a Mormon, they are not Christians, which seems to be the gist of so many of these posts lately...If someone tells me they are a Christian, I take them at their word..only the Lord himself, knows the truth of the matter of an individuals ‘Christianity’, and you, not me, not any mere mortal...

[restornu]

A remarkable uninquistive fellow! Actually, the last statement doesn't pass the smell test at all. If there is one thing anyone knows about the Mormons, it's that they practiced polygamy at one time. Whatever his reason for being excommunicated, it is apparent from his statements that he is no longer a believer.

That is what I said, where has he been living in a cave?

Before my conversion I knew that all my life!

[restornu]

Everlasting for those that enter into it anyway.

The diference between a civil marriage (covenant between a man and women) and a Celestial marriage(between man and God it may include another person but the covenant is with God)a very good understanding of the covenant!

Celestial marriage
Excerpt on the diferent betweet a covenant in the world between a man and a women, and understanding the Celestial covenant is made be between God and man.