Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Glenmerle; Kolokotronis
How are the Lutheran church and EO churches alike regarding justification/sanctification?

In some ways miles apart, in some ways kind of close. In the Orthodox Churches, the whole concept of justification/sanctification never really became a point of contention like it did in the West. Primarily because St. Augustine did not have that much influence in the East.

But in talking with many Orthodox, they focus more on the Love of God (which is more Lutheran) than the legal contractrial requirements of salvation (which is more of a Catholic/Western view). For instance, a conservative Roman Catholic will talk of their "Weekly obligation of going to Mass" in terms of a legal requirement. An Orthodox person will typically talk of going to church as a type of love offering (I might not have phrased that right).

Now, both are going to church because of their love of God, but in the Roman Catholic view, it is viewed more as a contratial obligation (you must do X) than as a result of our love for God. Lutherans and Orthodox take more the view that it is a result of our love for God, because you can not "force" that love.

90 posted on 09/26/2007 3:43:35 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies ]


To: redgolum; Glenmerle

“Primarily because St. Augustine did not have that much influence in the East.”

For all intents and purposes, virtually no influence, for which I might add, we are eternally grateful!

“But in talking with many Orthodox, they focus more on the Love of God (which is more Lutheran) than the legal contractrial requirements of salvation (which is more of a Catholic/Western view). For instance, a conservative Roman Catholic will talk of their “Weekly obligation of going to Mass” in terms of a legal requirement. An Orthodox person will typically talk of going to church as a type of love offering (I might not have phrased that right).”

Its really quite simple. Here’s a story to illustrate what I mean. Some years ago my wife and I were visiting with the nuns at the monastery on the mountain outside our village down in the old country. The abbess, an MD in her former life, asked my wife, as a woman who had grown up a Congregationalist and become Orthodox as a grown woman, what she saw as the difference between the churches in the West and The Church in the East. She replied, “In the West, Mother, the churches say ‘do this or you will go to Hell’. In the East The Church says, ‘Do this and you will become like God’.”


92 posted on 09/26/2007 4:13:24 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

To: redgolum; Glenmerle

“In the Orthodox Churches, the whole concept of justification/sanctification never really became a point of contention like it did in the West. Primarily because St. Augustine did not have that much influence in the East.”

It just occurred to me that Kontakion 22 of +Romanos the Melodist (8th century) poetically lays out a part of what you are talking about here. In the West, the Crucifixion is seen as an atonement to God for sin, at least since the 11th century. The influence of Blessed Augustine and his notions of original sin in all of this cannot be overemphasized. At any rate, take a read of this Kontakion and see if what the East believes to have been the purpose of the crucifixion isn’t somewhat different from what you see in the West. By the way, this is a pdf file.

http://www.anastasis.org.uk/ROMK22.pdf


97 posted on 09/26/2007 5:05:51 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

To: redgolum
Now, both are going to church because of their love of God, but in the Roman Catholic view, it is viewed more as a contratial obligation (you must do X) than as a result of our love for God. Lutherans and Orthodox take more the view that it is a result of our love for God, because you can not "force" that love.

This has been my impression, but I didn't know if that impression was based in reality or I'd just happened to read things and talk to people -- by luck of the draw -- who basically said what you've said here.

100 posted on 09/26/2007 6:42:11 PM PDT by Glenmerle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson