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To: al_c
Thanks Al for your response;

(Al Wrote) As I stated in a previous post, the early church had no written bible and taught by word of mouth. This is the way it has been handed down through the centuries. And it is not just men. These men (the Church) are being guided by the Holy Spirit. That is our belief.

I'd also like to call your attention to the book of Acts when the remaining apostles voted to fill the spot once held by Judas. If there was no intention of continuing the line of apostles beyond the original 12, then there would have been no reason to replace Judas.

The RCC does not stress the human succession so much as the succession of men chosen by God through His Holy Spirit to lead the flock.


Absolutely Godly men have and continue to be guided by the Holy Spirit. This is not to say that their every word or thought is of God though. There is a reason that not everything written by Godly men is considered scripture.

On Apostolic Succession, please note though that in addition to the 12, Paul (as well as Barnabas) is also recognized as an Apostle. What marks an Apostle though? Some of the scriptural marks of an Apostle are;

a) They have seen the Lord
(choosing a replacement for Judas) it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us (Acts 1:21)
Am I not an Apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? (1 Cor 9:1b)

b) they are called by God (Luke 6:13, Gal 1:1), and as such are filled with the seal of Holy Spirit, and are to baptize and teach obedience to all God's Word.

c) God attests to their preaching with miraculous signs (Mark 16:20, Acts 5:12, 2 Cor 12:12)

I've only really highlighted the first one though... they have seen the Lord. To be discipled by an Apostle does not mean that one becomes an Apostle, nor does being selected by 'Apostolic Succession' make a person into an Apostle. The succession that is meant is not one of lineal physical descent. To my knowledge, newly elected Popes do not make the assertion that they have seen Christ as Paul or the Twelve did.

Paul himself presents an additional dilemma. The RC assertion that Apostolic Succession only occurs within the RC church denies the evidence of scripture. Not only was Paul made an Apostle away from the 12, but we are also told that the Holy Spirit "blows wherever it pleases" (Jn 3:8). If we are to stress the "succession of men chosen by God through His Holy Spirit", then we should be careful not to limit the Holy Spirit by our human understanding.

The Holy Spirit of God will choose people to lead His church... let us be careful to look for them wherever God places them, and not only where we 'expect' them.

Let God be true, but every man a liar (Ro 3:4)
100 posted on 09/01/2007 8:17:56 AM PDT by DragoonEnNoir
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To: DragoonEnNoir

Paul didn’t immediately go out preaching the word after his encounter. He spent much time with Peter and the others before being sent out. Yes, these men are called by God, guided by the Holy Spirit, and as far as seeing the Lord, which seems to be your litmus test, who are we to say that each pope hasn’t seen the Lord? Can you positively say that they haven’t?


101 posted on 09/04/2007 6:10:30 AM PDT by al_c
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