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To: klossg
But I need to clarify that Jesus did not say that we cannot "worship" the Father without Himself. He said people cannot "know" the Father or honor Him properly without the Son

Help me here- are you saying that Muslims can "worship" the Father without "knowing" or "honoring" him??

But they do worship the same God as we.

Christians worship the Triune God. Muslims consider us polytheists for this. The Trinity cannot be parsed. One cannot "know", "honor", or "worship" the Father without the Son. Jesus said that the Pharisee's father was the devil, because they did not recognize Jesus as the Son. Muslims themselves see the distinction clearly; they certainly don't believe we worsip the same God. IMHO, this is one of the most dangerous aspects of modern Catholicism.
93 posted on 08/16/2007 5:30:37 AM PDT by armydoc
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To: armydoc
Help me here- are you saying that Muslims can "worship" the Father without "knowing" or "honoring" him??

In a way, yes. But, I should not have used "Father" for He is a person. I should have used "God", as in th one God. That, clarified to be God and not the Father alone, is the same thing the Catholic Church says. It is "worship" and it is to God ... but they eliminate Jesus and therefore the Holy Spirit. That is heresy! This leaves Muslims out of the loop.

But, He is still the same God. God does not change! It is the Muslims' warped approach to God that leaves them in the lurch. They missed/refuse to accept the Word.

Christians worship the Triune God

Again I agree. So does the Catholic Church.

Muslims consider us polytheists for this.

Yep. They do. And I have personally talked to them and that is their contention and what they are taught.

One cannot "know", "honor", or "worship" the Father without the Son.

I agree with this too. And this is not contradicting myself. Words are important. They do not know, honor or worship the Father, the person! Instead they are stuck with the same conception of God as the Jews have (pre Jesus Christ). But, they do know the same God as us, as we know the same God as the Jews. And they do worship God, the one and only God. He is the God revealed in the Old Testament to Adam, Abraham, David, ... And He is the God that the Muslims worship.

Muslims themselves see the distinction clearly; they certainly don't believe we worsip the same God.

If you want to take your point of view from heretics, go right ahead. No one can stop you. Christians on the other hand were there when Islam formed. So were the Jews. We know they broke into their own religion by stealing parts of ours. Mohammed took our religion and the Jew's religion, including our God and twisted them to fit his goals.

Again we are in agreement as to the fact that Islam is a heresy. But, as can be seen their religion is based on the same God we worship. They also worship God - improperly.
97 posted on 08/16/2007 9:29:26 AM PDT by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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