Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan
It is not possible for Christ’s blood to be wasted. It is sufficient for ALL, YET it applies only to the elect, those who come to Him.

You are correct x. To suggest that if the blood of Christ were shed for all mankind that it would be "wasted" on those who reject that sacrifice is not a biblical argument. It is an emotional argument. The Bible is quite clear about the target of the atonement:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2 KJV)

9,414 posted on 10/19/2007 6:32:08 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9411 | View Replies ]


To: P-Marlowe; blue-duncan

The truth also remains that God is above all creation and that there is none other beside Him.

For Him to sacrifice Himself, would automatically make that sacrifice of surpassing value that nothing else could match.

It automatically would be valuable enough to pay for anything in creation.

In short, God is worth infinitely more than all of creation combined over all time.

What we have is the ultimate sacrifice. We don’t have an exchange house God, sitting with his accountant’s hat counting out some exact amount of money.

What we do have is God giving all.


9,415 posted on 10/19/2007 6:41:02 AM PDT by xzins (If you will just agree to the murdering of your children, we can win the presidency)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9414 | View Replies ]

To: P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; xzins; HarleyD; Frumanchu; wmfights; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; ...
If Christ actually atoned for "all the sins of every man in the entire world," then all the sins of every man in the entire world would be forgiven and no one would stand guilty before God.

That's pretty clear, isn't it?

So we need to rethink what "the world" means within the context it's used throughout Scripture.

As the link said which I posted, if you deny limited atonement, you are actually denying God's election of His family due to His good pleasure, and thus you are once again returning salvation to some sort of foreseen "good works" by men.

It's no coincidence the first thing Arminius did upon his return from Rome was to write against particular redemption. And that is because if God does not ordain His family for His own reasons but because of men's good works and their own ability to believe in Christ, then of course the church in Rome has a duty to dole out more of this type of work-based righteousness.

You're standing with Rome on this one, and against Luther and Calvin and Augustine and Paul and every Reformer for the past 500 years.

But most of all, you're standing against Jesus Christ who clearly says He does NOT pray for the entire world, but only for those whom the Father has given Him (John 17).

It's always strange to think Christians do not believe this. I can understand non-Christians speaking against a particular redemption. But for Christians to go along with some half-baked idea that God doesn't love them with a particular love, hasn't carved their names in stone from eternity in His Book of Life, didn't ordain their salvation by Christ "before they could do anything good or evil" is actually going along with the world's denial of God and His omnipotence and His very particular, individual, specific love for the members of His family.

Everyone does NOT have the same ability and desire to love Him. The ability and desire to love God come from God and not from ourselves.

Please read the following essay by John Piper...

FOR WHOM DID CHRIST TASTE DEATH?

"...In other words, it's unhealthy to say that Jesus tasted death for everyone and not to know what Jesus really accomplished by dying. Suppose you say to me, "I believe that Jesus died for everyone," and I respond, "Then why is not everyone saved?" Your answer probably would be, "Because you have to receive the gift of salvation; you have to believe in Christ in order for his death to count for you." I agree, but then I say, "So you believe that Christ died for people who reject him and go to hell in the same way that he died for those who accept him and go to heaven?" You say, "Yes, the difference is the faith of those who go to heaven. Faith connects you with the benefits of the death of Jesus."

There are several problems here. I will only mention one. And I dwell on this because, if this is what you believe, then you are missing out on the depths of covenant love that God has for you in Christ by understanding it to be the same as the love he has for those who reject him. And you are, in one serious way, "neglecting your great salvation," which, we saw in Hebrews 2:3, we must not do. There is a greatness about being loved with Calvary love that you will never know if you believe that those in hell were loved and died-for the same way you were..."

And for me, I know this is true because I experienced both loves -- the love I felt from God when I thought I was loved the same way God loved Judas, and then when I experienced the love of God for His own family -- created, named, ordained and saved from before the foundation of the world, according to His will, and not my own.

And every person on the planet can feel this love, too, if they are so inclined; if they are "called according to His purpose."

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." -- John 15:16

Do you stand with the Romanists here, too, and say Christ is speaking only to His apostles and not to you and me in particular?

9,430 posted on 10/19/2007 10:41:31 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9414 | View Replies ]

To: P-Marlowe; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan
The Bible is quite clear about the target of the atonement: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2 KJV)

I would suggest that this verse needs to be examined in relationship with Isaiah 63 which states:

God looked at those unbelieving Israelites as their Savior. These are the same people who "vexed His Holy Spirit" and rebelled. Psalms says they were unbelievers. But God still loved them and considered Himself their Savior, and He was right. (What else did you expect me to say?)

From His point of view He is the Savior of the whole world just as He claimed He was the Savior of Israel as He brought them out of Egypt. But those people perished. I believe John (and Peter's "..even denying the Master who bought them...") are talking about how God looks at man, but it isn't all inclusive. Christ blood only atones for those who He returns to His inheritance. Isaiah 63 shows that God considers Himself the Savior of even those who are perishing.

9,438 posted on 10/19/2007 12:33:58 PM PDT by HarleyD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9414 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson