Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Dr. Eckleburg
LOL. I haven't commented on this error? LOL. I've commented on this error so much it should be my tag.

Oh, your comment is "If God desired to save all mankind, then why doesn't He?" merely IGNORES the question. Rather than rationalizing, we should look to the Scriptures and note that God is beyond such rationalizations. All you do is avoid the question by asking another question. And then all of those many Scripture quotes about Jesus dying for the SIN OF THE WORLD - totally brushed aside...

If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved. Not one drop of Christ's blood was shed in vain. All of Christ's sheep will be brought safely home.

Again, you avoid the question by asking another question that is not related. Rather than ask that question, you should ask "WHY does God allow some men NOT to be saved."

Consider Romans 5

And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life. Romans 5:16-18

Now, reformers are quick to point out the first part of this formula - man is corrupt as a result of the sin of one man. EVERY man. The whole world. We have all inherited the condemnation because of ONE MAN. However, as is typical, the reformers only read part of Scriptures and ignore what they don't like. The SECOND part tells us that the SECOND ADAM'S redemption is that much GREATER. YOUR idea has Christ's atonement LIMITED. NOT EVERYONE is offered salvation. YOU have Christ's work lesser than Adam's sin. That is CLEARLY not what Paul says, my friend.

Read the underlined part above. You are incredibly mistaken. Christ's salvation is available for ALL men. Clearly, it is the reformers who are mistaken, limiting Christ's work to a chosen few, no doubt, the SELF-SELECTED.

Regards

9,166 posted on 10/16/2007 5:15:00 AM PDT by jo kus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9152 | View Replies ]


To: jo kus; Forest Keeper; wmfights; HarleyD; blue-duncan; Athena1; suzyjaruki; irishtenor
Jo kus, you know we Reformers are always delighted when RCs offer Scripture hoping to support their beliefs. It's definitely a step in the right direction.

Read the underlined part above. You are incredibly mistaken. Christ's salvation is available for ALL men.

I'm happy to read the underlined part, and as an added bonus for context and clarity, let's throw in verse #19 which you chose to omit...

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." -- Romans 5:17-19

Here we have Paul saying three things...

1) Salvation is by the "receipt" of God's grace. It is not by the acceptance of God's grace, since God's saving grace is only given to those who were named among His family by God's good pleasure alone and not through any of their own good works. As Paul later tells us...

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11

2) Christ has appeared to all men as the only way to heaven, and no man is without excuse. His truth is so obvious and His divinity is so evident, all men are called to believe. "The free gift came upon all men" and some comprehended the gift and some did not.

"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." -- John 1:5


"Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:5

Now we know that not every man is a "child of the light" or else every man would believe and be saved. A man must be born again if he is to be known as among God's family, and that rebirth is an act of God, not man. As Jesus said, with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

3) And finally we have the verse you left off, the verse that clarifies Paul's point which is that God's grace is transformative, particular and completely effective for all whom receive it.

"so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Not all; many.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself" -- Ephesians 1:4-9

Clearly, it is the reformers who are mistaken, limiting Christ's work to a chosen few, no doubt, the SELF-SELECTED.

God selects. God limits. God ordains. God justifies. God illuminates. God sanctifies. God gives all good gifts. God made us to differ.

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." -- John 5:5-6

Do you actually believe the "love of God is shed abroad" in ALL men's hearts "by the Holy Ghost which is given unto" ALL men?

How ineffectual is this Holy Ghost? How weak is this love?

Read the text. Christ died for the ungodly; not for those who first had the good sense and sufficient piety to believe in Him. Belief in Christ is a result of our election by God; not a requirement for it. (Read again Romans 9:11.) God elects. Christ redeems. The Holy Spirit sanctifies. "Salvation is of the Lord."

Salvation is by God's unmerited, free grace through faith. You know what Paul says about boasting that it was your idea...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:8-10

If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved.

9,173 posted on 10/16/2007 10:43:32 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9166 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson