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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; jo kus
But the toy has no will at all. People certainly do. Many times, God just leaves people to their own wills. That's what makes them, and not God, responsible.

So,correct me if I'm wrong? God creates a person that He will never give an opportunity for Salvation?

He just leaves them alone from conception and they eventually end up in Hell through no fault of God ?

No matter how you dice this up,God would still be the one who created this person and still responsible for creating a person with NO chance of Salvation

This would be God giving human sacrifice to the devil in my mind.

9,107 posted on 10/15/2007 4:43:11 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi; MarkBsnr; kosta50; P-Marlowe; xzins; Kolokotronis; jo kus; D-fendr; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
So,correct me if I'm wrong? God creates a person that He will never give an opportunity for Salvation?

Yes, and under Apostolic theology God creates the same person already knowing full well that he will never come to Christ. I really don't see a difference since from God's POV the end result is the same, YET He created anyway. Unless God's foreknowledge can be changed somehow, the same person never really had a chance under either scenario.

He just leaves them alone from conception and they eventually end up in Hell through no fault of God ?

No, I don't think it works like that. There is such a thing sometimes called "common grace". It includes all the things that God gives to all humans. If God gave no grace at all to someone, I suppose he would wind up being a zombie murderer or something. :) But seriously, saving grace is something that He gives only to His elect. For those not of the elect, they are left to the natures they were born with and are reprobate. We thank God that He decided to save any of us at all.

No matter how you dice this up, God would still be the one who created this person and still responsible for creating a person with NO chance of Salvation.

Yes, you're right. And this is exactly the same as in Apostolic theology. If God foreknows that the person will not choose Christ, then he effectively has no chance. Yet, God creates him anyway.

This would be God giving human sacrifice to the devil in my mind.

Well I hope not, for both our sakes. :)

9,162 posted on 10/16/2007 1:22:14 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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