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To: jo kus
Ah, so a person who is born again is a true Christian - and if he later falls away, he was never a true Christian to begin with? How exactly is that "certitude of salvation"? Sounds like double-talk to me.

No double talk. A person who is born again IN FACT, CANNOT fall away permanently. Aside from ourselves, none of us can know who is born again in fact. I have been perfectly consistent with this. The "certitude of salvation" is exclusive to the individual.

And how exactly are you able to ascertain JESUS' knowledge of whether He knew YOU? Those Christians in Mat 7 THOUGHT they knew Jesus, as well. But JESUS never knew THEM. In other words, they deceived THEMSELVES. Thus, how does a 'Christian' know he is not deceiving himself?

I recognize Christ's voice in the scriptures and I follow it.

8,923 posted on 10/12/2007 5:14:43 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
A person who is born again IN FACT, CANNOT fall away permanently.

Double talk. You quote me Mat 7. Doesn't it say that JESUS said He never knew the Christian? The Christian THOUGHT he knew Christ but was wrong. So what makes you any less deceived than these charecters?

The "certitude of salvation" is exclusive to the individual.

The certitude of salvation is exclusive to the community! Only those WITHIN it will be saved. The trick is whether you are in or not!

I recognize Christ's voice in the scriptures and I follow it.

That's what the people of Matthew 7 thought. However, God is the one who determines whether HE "knew" YOU.

Regards

8,925 posted on 10/12/2007 5:52:13 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: Forest Keeper

A person who is born again IN FACT, CANNOT fall away permanently. Aside from ourselves, none of us can know who is born again in fact. I have been perfectly consistent with this. The “certitude of salvation” is exclusive to the individual.


How do you know that a born again / elect / believer / whatever cannot fall away permanently?

The “certitude of salvation” is a creation of the Gnostics which predated Christ, by the way.


8,957 posted on 10/13/2007 8:29:22 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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