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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; kosta50; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis
the talk of "free" will is a wrong perception. There is a will but it is not free.

I actually think I understand what you say here, but I think you are saying it wrong.

Free will not a wrong perception.

If you are saying that in our fallen nature we are disposed to sin, to abuse our instincts, to choose our self over God, I agree. St. Paul put it well about doing what we wish not to.

This is not a wrong perception of free will. We know we are choosing. As we learn and grow, we know we are choosing poorly, try to do better and still on occassion fail. So we pray more, examine our conscience more, confess more. With God's grace our wants change and temptation lessens, our will becomes more closely aligned with God's will for us.

All of this is perceived by us if we choose to be aware of it.

Free will does not mean perfection, it means each step in our life has choices. Toward God or away.

Where the Reformers err is in thinking if this is true "man's free will means he does it alone..." etc. If this were the case, our choices would be of no avail. Our prayers, our spiritual practice would leave us still alone. Or worse, our every right choice would bring us more pride and further away from God.

This is not the case. As Kolo's post of St. Symeon explained, our steps are the smallest part: “Do you realize what My power has done to you out of love for men because of but a little faith and patience that strengthens your love?"

Our perception of temptation is real. Our perception of our choices is real. Our experience of God's grace, His hand pulling us if we reach out is real. His strength carries us if we sincerely ask.

Here's a little prayer that says it for me:

"O God, You are my Rock and my Salvation, to You I cling during this dark hor of trouble. Hold my hand tightly, for I lack even that little strength I need to hold on to Your hand."

thanks for your reply

8,869 posted on 10/12/2007 7:58:38 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
Where the Reformers err is in thinking if this is true "man's free will means he does it alone..." etc. If this were the case, our choices would be of no avail. Our prayers, our spiritual practice would leave us still alone. Or worse, our every right choice would bring us more pride and further away from God

Very well said.

8,948 posted on 10/13/2007 5:13:43 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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