[kosta50]

No, you misunderstand what is being said. Every (spiritually) good thing comes from the Father. Every (spiritually) bad thing is generated by us

No, HD, you are changing your story. If we are exactly who we are, where we are and what we are because God willed it, then it makes no difference if we are good or evil; in either case it's God's final word, and therefore His doing.

Monergism is not only a one way street; it's a dead-end street as well. You can't have God in control of everything and man being in control of (and repsonsible for) his sin. If we sin on our own, then God is not in control of everything. But, if our nature is sinfull, and our will is sinfull, then God is not in cotnrol of our nature or our will and there goes your soveeignty of God.

But your doctrine says that we are born sinful because of God. What we are is God's doing, as you say and are now trying to retract, because, after all, you believe that God trapped and tricked Adam to commit sin. Our sinful nature did not come about wihtout God's making sure it does. Or as some say triumphantly, "God was not surprised!"

All Protestants paint themselves into this corner with monergism. This is why St. Augustine finally realized that his doctrines were leading him to accuse God of evil, and that's when he stopped.

Perhaps the Protestants should do the same.

[HarleyD]

No, HD, you are changing your story.

Tsk, tsk. Maybe you could have made this claim three years ago when I was a baby Calvinist and made some rather stupid statements. However, I'm a juvenile delinquent Calvinist now and know better. We were "slaves to sin". We become "slaves to righteousness". I have consistently state this. If you would like to review the Westminster Confession here they are.

Monergism is not only a one way street; it's a dead-end street as well. You can't have God in control of everything and man being in control of (and repsonsible for) his sin. If we sin on our own, then God is not in control of everything.

Not so. God works all things to His glory, even OUR sin. He's pretty clever you know.

But your doctrine says that we are born sinful because of God. What we are is God's doing, as you say and are now trying to retract

I'm not retracting anything. Man is born in a sinful state. From your paradigm where you believe man can become gods by doing wonderful things this may seem odd. However, this is not what the scriptures tell us. It says we all have sinned. John says if we say we have no sin then the truth is not in us. And we know the wages of sin is dead. So, given this overwhelming evidence that man is a sinful creature, where do you think man will go if man does not repent?

This is why St. Augustine finally realized that his doctrines were leading him to accuse God of evil, and that's when he stopped.

Ummmm...actually he stopped because he died.

[jo kus]

No, HD, you are changing your story. If we are exactly who we are, where we are and what we are because God willed it, then it makes no difference if we are good or evil; in either case it's God's final word, and therefore His doing.

Monergism is not only a one way street; it's a dead-end street as well. You can't have God in control of everything and man being in control of (and repsonsible for) his sin. If we sin on our own, then God is not in control of everything. But, if our nature is sinfull, and our will is sinfull, then God is not in cotnrol of our nature or our will and there goes your soveeignty of God.

Good job. They want it both ways, don't they? If God created man with a nature that allows ONLY sin, then how is it man's fault that he sins? The great Counter-Reformers asked that very same question of the Calvinists, and thousands returned to the faith...

Their idea is kind of like being condemned because I cannot benchpress 5000 pounds... "I'm such a bad boy - I guess I deserve eternal damnation..." Next, we'll be condemned because we can't flap our arms and fly, either...

Is that the God of the Bible???

Regards