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To: D-fendr; Forest Keeper; kosta50; MarkBsnr
To deny it exists is akin to saying we can't trust our own eyes.

Don't we walk by faith and not by sight? I wouldn't go strictly on what I see around me. And even if I did, there are many people who never hear the gospel and many who further reject the message. Why Bob becomes a Christian and not Joe can only be explained that God wanted Bob to become a Christian. Otherwise He would have done whatever He needed to to get Joe to accept Christ. I trust we both would agree that if God wanted Joe to be a Christian, Joe would be a Christian.

The Calvinist method - deducing experiential data from theology reminds me of errors long ago of deducing astonomical data from theology.

LOL!!! In my mind to deny the "chosen people" is essentially denying the entire Bible which is written about the "chosen people". I personally think that a big "DUH!".

8,823 posted on 10/11/2007 5:29:47 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; kosta50; MarkBsnr
Don't we walk by faith and not by sight?

I was speaking quite literally about our sense data. If we cannot trust our senses - and even further our experience of making choices and decisions - then all argument must cease. It's been reduced to: It could all be a dream, all an illusion.

Of course existence COULD all be a dream. But if this is taken as a truth statement that we cannot trust our basic experience of reality, then actual productive discussion must stop. We can no longer trust the instruments of our minds or senses and our 'delusions' of reality are equally invalid.

8,828 posted on 10/11/2007 5:53:54 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: HarleyD

We do not deny that God chooses people.

We do not agree on who constitutes the chosen.


8,884 posted on 10/12/2007 11:52:27 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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