[D-fendr]

He would be less of a human being if he experienced that he didn't have free will. I'll agree to that. But of course, our actual experience is that of having a full free will.

But WOULD he really be human without free will?

It sounds to me like you've have God creating illusions of humans with the illusion of free will.

[HarleyD]

It sounds to me like you've have God creating illusions of humans with the illusion of free will.

That's a bit of an odd statement. Since when is it required of God to give men "free" will? God is very clear that our souls belong to Him, not us:

Eze 18:4 "Behold, all souls are Mine;...

Even Paul reiterates this:

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

What is illusionary is that we think that we are not bound in sin. The Son must set us free.

Mat 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

God must grant us knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom.

[Forest Keeper]

FK: "He would be less of a human being if he experienced that he didn't have free will. I'll agree to that. But of course, our actual experience is that of having a full free will."

But WOULD he really be human without free will? It sounds to me like you've have God creating illusions of humans with the illusion of free will.

Of course he would really be human without free will as we are talking about it. As Harley intimated, where did God ever promise us that He would let us decide to "will" ourselves into Heaven independently from Him? This is His show, not ours. God is the potter and we are the clay.