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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; HarleyD; wmfights; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; ...
God gives to the righteous and the unrighteous. In fact God's love is unconditional, impartial.

For things like rain or sunshine, this is certainly true. It is one kind of grace, and in this sense it can be said that God loves the whole world. However, this is not the case with saving grace. That only goes to those God has already chosen:

Rom 9:8-18 : 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." 10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad — in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls — she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

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He saves those who are righteous in His eyes and not because He "likes" them. It's not an emotion, or opinion: it's a fact: those who are righteous in His eyes are truly righteous even if we don't see them as such.

I have no idea why God chooses some over others. I just know it wasn't based on points earned. :) Those who are righteous in His eyes are only those who are declared righteous SOLELY by the work of Christ.

8,517 posted on 10/08/2007 11:45:05 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
For things like rain or sunshine, this is certainly true. It is one kind of grace, and in this sense it can be said that God loves the whole world. However, this is not the case with saving grace. That only goes to those God has already chosen

I like the words "general benevolence" of God towards His creation rather than any kind of grace being seen as given to the reprobate. Grace saves. Period.

Actually, the more good things God gives the reprobate, the more he is condemned by his disbelief.

8,521 posted on 10/08/2007 12:04:52 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Forest Keeper
I have no idea why God chooses some over others. I just know it wasn't based on points earned. :) Those who are righteous in His eyes are only those who are declared righteous SOLELY by the work of Christ.

Indeed. Praise God!!!

Thank you so much for sharing your insights!

8,527 posted on 10/08/2007 12:29:25 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; HarleyD; wmfights; 1000 silverlings; ...
I have no idea why God chooses some over others. I just know it wasn't based on points earned. :)

There is a flip side in all of this that our Arminian brethren fail to recognize. It isn't just that God chooses some over others. The scriptures in many places talk about God hardening the hearts of those who He so will. We know that God purposely and deliberately hardened the heart of Pharaoh, of the Jews, Herod and many others. One of the NT text that Paul talks about this is in Romans where God has brought about a partial hardening of the Jews until the fullness of the Gentiles is brought in. If it was truly God's desire to bring all men to repentance, then one has to wonder why God would harden and darken people's hearts?

God continuously calls and pity man but man will never come. God redeems man from circumstance after circumstance but they will not come. Man's response is to continuously rebel and vex the Holy Spirit. If it was not for God grace and mercy none would be saved.

Our Arminian friends can argue until the cows come home against God choosing some over others, but they have no explanation as to the hardening of the heart; except perhaps to say that it was really man who did this and God just let it happened. So, accordingly, man chooses to follow God or man chooses to harden his own heart knowing that hell awaits. But it is all man, not God, that does the saving. God only "inspires". The atonement is something for everyone and justification is simply doing something for God. In the end, if God does not choose or harden the hearts of men, one ends up with a God that has little participation in mankind.

Instead, I see a God who is deeply involved in the affairs of man, atoning for our sins, ensuring our sanctification, protecting and nurturing us, and guiding our paths towards our glorification. We are His sheep of His pastures.

8,583 posted on 10/09/2007 5:37:23 AM PDT by HarleyD
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