Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: kosta50; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Alex Murphy; 1000 silverlings; suzyjaruki; irishtenor; ...
HARLEY: Ah! The old get-out-of-theology "free will" card. So God planted a tree in the garden knowing that Adam would use his free will and eat off that tree

KOSTA: Knowing what he would do is not important, HD.

Not important?!? The rest of all history follows from Adam's eating off that tree; seems pretty important to me. And to God, no doubt.

You've evaded the obvious conclusion from Harley's question. God knew full well what Adam would do with that tree, and yet He planted it anyway. The Fall was certainly no surprise to God. In fact, it probably was part of His plan for creation, since God's decrees all precede any actions by His creatures.

The important thing for God was that man has free will, that we are not His robots, but His children.

Where does it say in Scripture the important thing for God is that we have free will? In fact, since it doesn't even exist in the manner most people toss the phrase around, it matters nearly not at all.

The "important thing for God" is that He is glorified by His children for the gift of grace He has given them through faith in Jesus Christ.

"And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak." -- Ephesians 10:19-20

Here Paul tells us even the words of His faith which he utters are given to him by God, and thus, he preaches as an "ambassador in bonds."

Not a lot of "free will" going around there.

8,403 posted on 10/05/2007 11:25:32 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8389 | View Replies ]


To: Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; D-fendr; MarkBsnr; jo kus; Kolokotronis; Alex Murphy; ...
Not important?!? The rest of all history follows from Adam's eating off that tree; seems pretty important to me. And to God, no doubt

To God, our temporal existence on earth is not important. It is important to us, as it is from here that we either go to heaven or hell.  

You've evaded the obvious conclusion from Harley's question. God knew full well what Adam would do with that tree, and yet He planted it anyway. The Fall was certainly no surprise to God

You are placing artificial limits on God and not even realize it. You are assuming that God is capable of creating only one outcome, and that everything is limited to that outcome. The other way of looking at it is that God, in His infinite nature, has an infinite repertoire of choices and paradigms, and is capable of designing an infinite number of outcomes, all of which fulfill His plan.

God planted the tree to set limits and provide choices so that man could exercise his reason and be a moral being, not to bring Adam's demise. God's intentions were good.  This is no different than the parable of talents.

In your theology, God knew that one servent would do nothing with his talent, and gave him a talent in order to ruin him! In other words, God designed it so that the servant would have no choice but to fail! God ruins no one.

God gives everyone choices. In order for them to be true choices, they must be made freely. The choices we make determine which path we will follow, and where we will end up. They do not affect God; they affect only us.

In your paradigm of a singular outcome, either we really do not choose but God chooses for us, or our choices affect or interfere with God's plan. I think that neither is correct. We choose, but our choices affect only us and our destiny , not God's plan: those who choose God will be saved and those who do not will be lost. Our choices do not change or affect God's plan one single bit.  

The "important thing for God" is that He is glorified by His children for the gift of grace He has given them through faith in Jesus Christ

That makes Him a vain God, subject to passions, and His grace, which is given freely, is not free at all, but conditional.

Here Paul tells us even the words of His faith which he utters are given to him by God, and thus, he preaches as an "ambassador in bonds."

If everything we have is given to us then we must include also that which is evil as well, which is incompatible with the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. God gave us the capacity to know Him, and the ability to speak. Those anatomical features are indeed given to us by God. But we are also created capable of reason, and of being moral creatures. Wisdom generates words. Words project the spirit which is born in the wisdom. If our wisdom is that of God then we are but mindless shells. If, on the other hand, our wisdom is imitating God, then we are ambassadors of God in our words and deeds, fashioned after the words and deeds of God, and thus through those who are pure enough, the love of God shines for others to see.

St. Paul may have been one of God's chosen to teach others, through whom God shone on the Gentiles, and he was pure enough to make such a claim. But that doesn't mean our words are words of God or that we are all ambassadors in bonds.


8,413 posted on 10/06/2007 6:32:55 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8403 | View Replies ]

To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Alex Murphy; 1000 silverlings; suzyjaruki; ...
You've evaded the obvious conclusion from Harley's question. God knew full well what Adam would do with that tree, and yet He planted it anyway. The Fall was certainly no surprise to God. In fact, it probably was part of His plan for creation, since God's decrees all precede any actions by His creatures.

Likewise, GOD created Satan and placed him in the position to do evil. GOD knew.

8,422 posted on 10/06/2007 9:33:57 AM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8403 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson