[jo kus]

The terms in mathematics – and therefore, science - have very precise meanings, your objections notwithstanding.

They certainly do. That is why your sources are questionable to me, even if they come from "the Math whiz" himself. Two parallel lines are no longer "parallel lines" if they intersect. By definition, they are NOT parallel. To BE a parallel line, it must NOT intersect. If it intersects, it is no longer a parallel set of lines. My objections remain.

Once again, time is geometric. There was a beginning of real space and real time.

I never said time was NOT geometric. And since I told you about infinite regression, I certainly ALSO believe time has a beginning. My point is that God is not subject to time. Thus, the idea that "eternity is time without end" is an incorrect definition.

Before time existed, God IS. That is part of revelation. Thus, applying time to God is incorrect. God existed "before" there was time. Infinity has no beginning or end. Time does - otherwise, we would have infinite regression and would never arrive at today.

As to points on a line and infinity, please explain to me how two points on an infinite line are distinct from each other. How is one closer to another point when there is no minimum or maximum? No beginning or end? How is ANYTHING measured in such a circumstance? Where minimum and maximum are equal and indistinct, there is unity. There is no "number". There is no "greater" or "lesser". There is no distinction. In infinity, God, there is no distinction - with the exception of origin. The uncaused cause was not generated, and the generated did not proceed. Thus, we have unity in infinity.

If you believe there is distinction in infinity, then perhaps you believe that there is more than a unity in the Godhead - a polytheistic proposition.

Regards

[Alamo-Girl]

me: The terms in mathematics – and therefore, science - have very precise meanings, your objections notwithstanding.

you: They certainly do. That is why your sources are questionable to me, even if they come from "the Math whiz" himself. Two parallel lines are no longer "parallel lines" if they intersect. By definition, they are NOT parallel. To BE a parallel line, it must NOT intersect. If it intersects, it is no longer a parallel set of lines. My objections remain.

I wonder if the reason you insist on rejecting the definition of "Point in Infinity" (intersection of two parallel lines) is that you are viewing mathematics through the lens of the physical? Some concepts that are useful in mathematics do not translate well to physics - infinity is one of those concepts.

Having said that, mathematics is unreasonably effective in the natural sciences.

Indeed, I often point to the unreasonable effectiveness of math as God's copyright notice on the cosmos.

Reimannian Geometry is an excellent example. It was developed in theory long before Einstein came along and pulled it off the shelf to describe General Relativity.

The mathematics, the logic, the language is writ large across that part of God's Creation we can physically observe.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. - John 1:1-3

And we are to notice such things:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. – Psalms 19:1-3

Math is truly a universal language.

But physical reality is not infinite. It is very much finite and thus such concepts as parallel lines if visualized in the physical sense, would not intersect. But in math theory, they do ... at the point in infinity. Think about it.

My point is that God is not subject to time. Thus, the idea that "eternity is time without end" is an incorrect definition.

The second statement does not follow from the first.

Of course God is not subject to time or space. He created them! His Name is I AM.

That is why I aver that “timeless” is a better adjective than “eternal” when speaking of God the Creator of “all that there is” whether spiritual or physical - including time!

But God’s Names are also Alpha and Omega – and Immanuel.

And as Dr. Eckleburg has pointed out, the Holy Spirit indwells us mere mortal denizens of space/time.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:9

And we are alive in Him and dead to this world even while yet in the flesh:

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. – Galatians 2:20

When meditating on God the Creator ex nihilo - one realizes that there is nothing of which anything can be made but His will - either His creative will or His permissive will.

One also then realizes His Names Alpha and Omega point to the First Cause and the Final Cause of “all that there is” – namely, Jesus Christ Himself:

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Col 1:15-20

On your technical comments:

Infinity has no beginning or end….

As to points on a line and infinity, please explain to me how two points on an infinite line are distinct from each other. How is one closer to another point when there is no minimum or maximum?

Infinity is an unbounded quantity greater than every real number Mathworld

Infinity is not "no quantity" like you are using it. No quantity would be "null" - not zero, but null - void, empty.

The “Line at Infinity” is the straight line on which all “Points at Infinity” lie. Mathworld

And any number sequence, e.g. -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3 – can be extended or projected, in either a positive or negative direction to infinity, i.e. an unbounded quantity greater than every real number.

Moreover, from Aristotle, the concept of “time” comes from counting … 1, 2, 3.

Eternity is not “no time” or “timelessness” it is “time without end” – or as the Epistle of Barnabas put it, a time of not counting.

If it were “no time” or “timelessness” then it would be the ex nihilo - void, null, empty – which preceded God’s Creation of “all that there is” – both spiritual and physical.

The Father is not begotten. Jesus Christ is begotten of the Father. The Spirit is from the Father by the Son.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. – Hebrews 1:1-8

It may be that the difference between us is mostly semantic.

To God be the glory!