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To: MarkBsnr
In other words, you’re ducking the question as to the level that God controls each individual....Am I to understand that under Reformed doctrine that man can only commit acts of spontaneity (ie God providing the entire inner principle of action and man CANNOT do any other), or does man have the ABILITY to commit acts only with that apprehension of an end

It is a ridiculous notion that God chooses people to go to hell and adjusts their mindset so that they like it.

The descriptions of hell are the worst possible descriptions of any environment that the early Jews could think up.

does it really matter? No.

We suffer the consequences of what we DO. And don’t do.


8,054 posted on 10/03/2007 11:44:00 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; MarkBsnr; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Man has a will. Man freely sins.

An old FRiend said the following:
The Calvinist says that natural, Fallen Man is not forced to Sin, never forced to do Evil, never compelled to reject God. On the contrary, Fallen Man is absolutely Free; and so he freely wills to Sin, to do Evil, to reject God all the time, every time, for that is all he wants to do and he has the uninhibited Free will to do whatsoever he Wants, without compulsion.

The question then is, does any man naturally possess God-pleasing wants?

8,060 posted on 10/03/2007 12:19:58 PM PDT by suzyjaruki (Why?)
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To: HarleyD

If nothing that we do matters, then what is the purpose of the Judgement and the emphasis on deeds?

Why the Sermon on the Mount? Why the Beatitudes if nothing that we do matters?


All people are born to go to hell. God was pleased that Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit and introduced death into the world God made all people and foreordained their final destination. Therefore God makes people to go to hell under Reformed theology. For proof, I turned to the:

Westminster Confession
Chapter VI
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and the Punishment thereof
I. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptations of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit.[1] This their sin, God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory.[2]

II. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion, with God,[3] and so became dead in sin,[4] and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.[5]

III. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed;[6] and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.[7]

IV. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good,[8] and wholly inclined to all evil,[9] do proceed all actual transgressions.[10]

V. This corruption of nature, during this life, does remain in those that are regenerated;[11] and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.[12]

VI. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto,[13] does in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner,[14] whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God,[15] and curse of the law,[16] and so made subject to death,[17] with all miseries spiritual,[18] temporal,[19] and eternal.[20]


I don’t understand the ‘how’ of hell. You don’t either. Nobody does. I just understand the ‘what’ of hell. But I still direct you back to the WCF’s fascinating statements to the effect that God is pleased that so many of His people roast in hellfire forever.


8,097 posted on 10/03/2007 3:11:09 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: HarleyD
If you doubt this scenario, you go out and commit some sin and see if you don't feel creepy about it. If you're a Christian, you will repent. God will see to it.

Isn't this one of the many ways the LORD tells you that you are one of his? :-)

8,112 posted on 10/03/2007 3:32:48 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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